[GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar

  • From: DRM <drmdcm@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:09:29 -0800 (PST)

-
WOW.

--- Mike Griffin <griff@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> -
> I was surprised at the fact you bring something up
> that is 2 years old.. It 
> did not make any sense as we resolved it to your
> satisfaction I might add, 
> and moved on with life. Now you accuse everyone who
> was present when the 
> joke was told as being supportive of the joke and
> racism. Tell me Jim, did 
> we really laugh at the joke or did we move on to
> something else. Did you 
> stand idly by when it was told and did nothing? You
> mean to tell me you had 
> the opportunity to say something and you, who has
> started a I HATE SLAGA 
> website, had nothing to say at the time????
> 
> Now you want PAUL to handle your problems? You are a
> whack job and have no 
> business functioning in society. I no longer
> consider you a friend or part 
> of MOGA. I guess you can add this to your list of
> Psychobabble on your 
> website. Somehow, this will reflect me being a
> racist too. So be it. I make 
> the statement right here and right now that I do not
> support racism in any 
> form. If someone tells a joke, it will 99% of the
> time be about someone. 
> Blond jokes are just as bad as Skin Color Jokes. If
> I listen to one and 
> laugh, does it make me any more rasict as the person
> who listens and says 
> NOTHING to the PERSON who tells it???
> 
> Then you start on PAUL for something that he wasn't
> present for. There were 
> several people around when this particular joke was
> told. However, NO ONE 
> said ANYTHING, including you.
> 
> I will not respond nor will I post on this subject
> again. Just know one 
> thing, you are not welcomed to anything I am
> associated with. THIS INCLUDES 
> MOGA.
> 
> I think you are an evil misguided person that has no
> backbone and must type 
> you opinions because you cannot stand up to the
> people who offend you.
> Have a miserable life!
> 
> Mike
> 
> Tired of Spam??
> Here's your solution..
> See: http://www.spamarrest.com/affl?4001050
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Bensman" <junkmailno@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 1:51 PM
> Subject: [GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with
> honey, than vinegar
> 
> 
> > -
> > I will be surprised if this is not blocked, but it
> will be on 
> > www.SLAGA.org
> > anyway.
> >
> > A few points in response to what has been posted.
> >
> > As I said on my website, "While the vast majority
> of people I have met in
> > SLAGA are really good people, there are some bad
> apples and SLAGA's 
> > officers
> > are bent on protecting them and punishing anyone
> who complains about
> > bigots."
> >
> > I will also point out I filed the complaint with
> SLAGA's officers last 
> > month
> > and begged them not to make it come to this.  I
> patiently gave the 
> > Officers
> > more than adequate time to act responsibility.
> >
> > As to complaints about misrepresenting things,
> while I certainly spin
> > things, I put all the correspondence with SLAGA's
> officers on the site 
> > spin
> > free in context so people can judge for
> themselves.  If Paul or anyone
> > thinks anything on the site is not true, I will
> address it and if we 
> > cannot
> > resolve it, I will allow them to post something on
> the site to make their
> > case.  If SLAGA's Officers want to post a
> response, I will put it up.
> >
> > As to the many suggestions that I should have
> personally confront the
> > person:  The person who used "ni**er" posted hate
> speech directed at 
> > Native
> > Americans on the listserve a couple of years ago. 
> As Paul pointed out, I
> > confronted him and was promptly set to no post for
> confronting the bigot.
> >
> > In the aftermath, Mike who was President at the
> time and who just posted, 
> > "I
> > am confused as to how this is my problem" told me:
> >
> > "The person who released the message, . . ., is a
> naturalized citizen from
> > Germany. He just thought he was doing the
> patriotic thing. His actions 
> > were
> > innocent as he did not know it would be offensive
> to anyone. When he saw 
> > the
> > part concerning native Americans, he thought it
> was just anyone born here. 
> > I
> > don't know what it means but it should have never
> been posted."
> > He also told me, "Racism has no place at SLAGA." 
> In response to me 
> > saying,
> > "I will not be quite when people spew hate. People
> being quite is what
> > allowed Hitler and the KKK to flourish. Hate
> speech drives people to kill
> > and do hateful things. People have an obligation
> to stand up when people
> > spew hate speech." Mike responded "I will not
> stand by either."  He also
> > stated, "We will setup an email account for abuse
> and complaints. They 
> > will
> > go to me and a few others I choose. They will not
> go to . . .. All persons
> > will be neutral. The address will be
> Abuse@xxxxxxxxxx"  He also told me, 
> > "No
> > room at SLAGA for racism or hate mail. Again,
> don't blame . . . for the
> > original message. He is an immigrant that thought
> he was doing something
> > patriotic. He didn't think about his actions and
> what it would have 
> > caused.
> > I regret that any of this happened."
> >
> > There was no misunderstanding this time.  The
> premise of the racist joke 
> > was
> > black people are much more offended by having to
> have a job than gay sex.
> > And most importantly, Mike stood by and laughed as
> the joke was told.  So 
> > it
> > did not seem to me that complaining to Mike (i.e.,
> SLAGA's designee for
> > handling complaints about racism) about what he
> was laughing at or to the
> > bigot was the way to address the situation. 
> Ignoring it would have been 
> > the
> > easy thing.  But I do not think that is the moral
> choice.
> >
> > It is also beyond belief at how Mike or anyone
> could compare criticizing
> > someone for not doing their fair share to hate
> speech based on people's
> > race.  This is particularly disturbing as Mike
> heard the racist joke too."
> > I will also point out I was secretly kicked off
> the list for my comments
> > about PA. We were also all warned how criticizing
> someone on this list is
> > not allowed.  I guess it all matters on your point
> of view if it is OK to
> > criticize you.
> >
> > Also it is not just about the hate speech, the
> main driving force of the
> > website is SLAGA's Officers (particularly Paul's)
> response to a complaint
> > about racist hate speech at events. One issue that
> needs to be resolved to
> 
=== message truncated ===



        
                
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