[GeoStL] Re: Perfection is hard to achieve

 I"m not t= alking about using the GE KML to find a cache. I know that they
intention= ally move the cache icon to preserve the thrill of the hunt. My
question = was more pointed to using the pointer coordinates that are
indicated by G= E when hovering over a landmark. I know that my GPSr is
generally +/- 15 = feet. Just doing a survey to see if it is generally
accepted that GE has = better acuracy or not? I guess to come at this
question from another dire= ction; When i manually enter the published
coordinates for one of my cach= es into GE, it marks a point almost 15ft
awayfrom the landmark where i k= now the cache is hidden. Which application
would you trust as the higher = authority? GE or a Garmin GPSr with a 1000
ping average? 

------ Original Message ------ 
Received: Wed, 02 May 2007 05:29:34 PM EDT 
From: Mike Lusicic <lusicic@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Perfection is hard to achieve 

If you are talking about the service where GE puts caches on the ma= p, then

Ithink that there is a disclaimer about the accuracy not being very= good. I

have seen caches move around as you zoom in and out on GE. 
On the other hand, if you are manually entering the coordinates on = a cache

page, then those are the hider's coordinates, and GE isn't going to= do 
anything to improve the situation. If anything, based on the discla= imer,
may introduce its own error. 

If you are looking at an aerial view and using landmarks to determi= ne 
coordinates for a hide, I am not sure how accurate that is. They ha= ve
coordinate over a photo, and depending on the area, the resolution = isn't 
thatgreat, and depending on the angle the photo is taken, the scale= isn't 
necessarily linear, so there will be some error introduced there, b= ut I 
don'tknow how much. I think in the long run, the GPSr on location m= ay be
best bet. 

BTW, those are not satellite views. They are taken from aircraft fl= ying
the area. 

RNX wrote: - Does a=3D nyone have an opinion on the acuracy of Goog= le
If i c=3D an zoom in and see the cache location, place my pointer o= n
point, can i assume that the designated coordinates are mo=3D re ac= urate
my GPSr's? I know there's still the error =3D of the finder's unit = to be 
accounted for, but at least the hi=3D der's error has been minimize= d.
Original Message ------ Received: Wed, 02 May 2007 04:29:57 PM EDT = From: 
MikeLusicic <lusicic@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>[1] To: geocaching@freelis= ts.org[2] 
Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Perfection is hard to achieve - Well, most fo= lks
at only the accuracy of their GPSr (from my=3D experiencein showing= folks),

assuming the published coordinates a=3D re accurate.Even with 15 fo= ot 
accuracy,if the hider is off 15 feet =3D to the left and the finder= is 15
off to the left of that, then that is 3=3D 0 feet without even 30 f= oot 
accuracyshowing on your GPSr. If both units=3D are only getting 30 = foot 
accuracy, then you could be 60 feet away. Of cour=3D se that is the= most 
extreme example. Of course the better the hider can do, =3D the les= s he is

going to contribute to the error, thus the method Steve was re=3D c=
for establishing the cache coordinates. Andrew Senger wrote: - I ha= ve to 
remind my dad (lobocs) of this a=3D ll the time.Frequently, his GPS= r will
to a different location than =3D mine, and he'll still look just in= his
(even with a 22-30 foot accurac=3D y!). I can easily count several = times
cache was away from both of our "Z=3D ero" points,so I've learned t= o start

looking around from there. Andrew=3D (yawetag) On 5/2/07, Laura Mil= lion 
<lmillio@xxxxxxxx>[3][1] wrote: - Whe=3D n I'm caching withne= w people or
teaching the Girl Scouts, I tell them that=3D the GPS is only a too= l that
take them to the area of the cache. Once th=3D ey get to the area, = they
put the GPS down and start using their eyes=3D and brains to look. = Look
things out of place like a pile of sticks or le=3D aves that would = not
fallen there naturally. Look for little nooks and =3D holes that mi= ght
small containers. Look high as well as low since some =3D of those = devious

cachers don't always place their caches on the ground. My=3D GPSr i= s often
off. That's what I get for buying it on E-bay. I also u=3D se a mag= netic 
compass because my needle on the GPS might be pointing s=3D outh, b= ut I
that that direction is really north. I'll pull out my compas=3D s a= nd find

whatis really south and follow that. It has helped me often. Lau=3D= ra
Faculty Technology Center ftc_help@xxxxxxxx[2[4]] 618-650-5697 To s= u=3D
bmit a 
work request please email ftc_help@xxxxxxxx[3[5]] For questions or = help
ith Blackboard please visit: 
http://www.siue.edu/lovejoylibrary/ftc/bb_tutorials.shtml[4[6]] ---= -=3D 
-Original Message----- From: geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[5[7]] 
[mailto:geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[6[8]]] On Behalf Of Stephen= =3D
Sent:Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:25 PM To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[7=3D= [9] ] 
Subject: [GeoStL] Perfection is hard to achieve - I am curious abou= t some
things that are actually geocache related... sorry no food this tim= e. I
=3D experienced several incidents of people pointing out that a cac= he is
by2=3D 0 to 50 feet. Sometimes it has been regarding one of my hide= s, 
sometimes=3D the logs of a cache I am hunting, and I have witnessed= it on
races. I be=3D lieve that there are many reasons for that including= terrain

andfoilage, we=3D ather, sattelite position and the difference in G= PSrs. 
Therefore, I watc=3D h the needleuntil I get to a zero and just sea= rch
from there. I=3D think that is the fun part... the search. How fun = is pin
tail on the don=3D key if your hand guides you to the exact spot. W= here is
challenge? Most o=3D ften the difference is 30 feet or less, and ge=
should teach whe=3D re to look. I would love feedback on this issue= =2E Am
atleast partly correct =3D for causes of descrepencies? Is the it t= he hunt
the needle that rocks? T=3D hanks for any response to my random tho= ughts. 
Happyhunting! Stephen BTW- T=3D he picnic looked to be a huge succe= ss from
look of the photos. Illness =3D kept me away. 
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