[GeoStL] Love many, trust few, harm none.-Yeo Man

  • From: "RNX" <_rnx_@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 03:38:04 -0400

-

Below is an excerpt from "Re-gaining Unconsciousness" by NOFX. It's a variation of "First they came…" by Pastor Martin Niemöller. I like the original better, but this one is more topical (you know, like an ointment :)

First they put away the dealers,
keep our kids safe and off the streets.
Then they put away the prostitutes,
keep married men cloistered at home.
Then they shooed away the bums,
then they beat and bashed the queers,
turned away asylum-seekers,
fed us suspicions and fears.
We didn't raise our voice,
we didn't make a fuss.
It's funny there was no one left to notice
when they came for us.


For the purests, here's the original by Niemöller circa 1976;

Original                           Translation
Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats
,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists
,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

 

I believe it is important to fight for your rights. And i don't really believe that the two oppositions in this discussion have assumed contradictory and exclusive view points. Just contrary. We all have the right to be on a playground or in a park or any other public space (during posted hours) and parents have the right to be suspicious (as do we all).  Mikes statement about individual rights not being absolute. "They are dependent upon not infringing the rights of others" applies equally to both sides. This is not about whos rights trump whos (btw parents are not allowed special treatment under the law. we all play by the same rules). Geocacher ≠ Purvert. Right?

'Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither' - Benjamin Franklin

 

Gale R. Nie wrote;

My life hasn't changed, I can still do everything I did prior to it passing, and it has helped keep my family safe from people who want to kill them.

If you have any examples you'd like to share...

Clinton/Obama '08

(wonder what they'll be eating tomorrow)

 



------Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:40:57 PM EDT
From: "Gale R. Nie" <showme69@xxxxxxxx>
To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Common sense when hiding


Even though we shouldn't be discussing politics here, since Stephen and Mike already started it, I'll throw in 2-cents.   I can guarantee both of you that you can't give me one example of how the Patriot Act has had even a minimal effect on you or your rights.   My life hasn't changed, I can still do everything I did prior to it passing, and it has helped keep my family safe from people who want to kill them.  If you have any examples you'd like to share, feel free to email me off-list so we don't clutter up the talk about food and the occassional geocache topic here on the list.
 
Gale
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:10 PM
Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Common sense when hiding

- Well, I am going to agree and disagree with you. I think the Patriot Act was given that name because it needed the disguise to get it through. It is anything but Patriotic and is an erosion of everyone's rights.

However..... your stand on rights trumping other rights just does not hold water. You are taking the same position as the guy who wants to maintain his absolute right to freedom of speech by yelling FIRE in the crowded movie theater. Your rights are NOT absolute. They are dependent upon not infringing the rights of others. Felons may pay taxes, but they are not allowed in certain areas. Child molesters pay taxes yet may not be allowed near playgrounds. Think of the rights of the child molester since he cannot find your cache. Are you as concerned about his rights as yours? And last but not least, there is this thing called COURTESY. Just because you feel you have a right to do something doesn't make that a courteous thing to do. I have just as much right to public ground as another, but it is just not courteous to stomp on someone else's foot because that foot happens to be on the ground you pay taxes to support. Do you think you should be able to blare a stereo at 1000 watts into someone's ear because you think you should have the right to play music as loud as you want? Courtesy. Think about it. You might find your attitude change a little if you think of someone else instead of YOUR rights alone.

There are many things wrong in this country, but I am sticking with it, and maybe even trying to make a difference. I don't cut and run when some self serving politician is working to undo 200 years of freedom in this country. But if you cut and run because you didn't like performing a courtesy to others, then what is keeping you here after the Patriot Act?

Stephen Martin wrote:
-
 
I am a citizen. i pay taxes. Parent or no, you're concern is not able to trump my RIGHTS!

i am not gonna fight. i will still hunt. just not submit to making everyone elses concern trump my rights. period
 

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