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I contemplated making a similar comment. But I realized that it is a
lot like the constitution and the many "interpretations". Like those
who say that the Second Amendment is NOT an individual right, but every
other amendment in the Bill of Rights defends individual rights with
similar language. The intent is clear, but there are those that argue
that it is a collective right. People forget that the purpose of the
Bill of Rights was to protect the people from the government, not
reserve rights for the government (collective). Anyway, not wanting to
get into the "definition of "is"" type of debate ala Bill Clinton, I
refrained. HOWEVER, now that it is out..... I don't mean to put words in Glenn's mouth, but IMHO, he is right in that this rule centers around the interpretation of "buried". For example, people use phrases like "buried under a pile of leaves". This is clearly not a definition that is appropriate in this context since this would rule out just about anything that is not in plain view. Would this mean that you cannot place a cache in a hollow fence post because it is buried? Someone had to dig the hole for the fence post, yet if it was already there is this a violation of the rule? And lets not forget that in the heading the word MAY is used and not WILL. That in itself should means that there is some leeway involved. That being said, I do think that there should be some consistency in the way the rules are interpreted. Or we wind up with the sad state of affairs we have come to with activist judges making rulings such that you don't know what the rules are anymore. Objectivity is gone and the whims of the judge and jury establish legality rather than guilt. We need a consistent set of rules so we don't have people getting DNFs because they didn't do something to find the cache that they thought was illegal, or people hiding caches in inappropriate ways figuring it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. Folks need to know what they can and cannot do to both look for and to hide caches, and it cannot get too arbitrary, or you will wind up having people doing things they shouldn't because they may figure it is one of those "arbitrary" things. I don't see anything wrong with putting a cache into something that is already buried, and not consider that a "buried" cache. So you can "bury" a cache under a pile of leaves, rocks or other matter, or in an existing hole or previously buried container such as an old house foundation, fence pipe, whether it is standing or cut off at the ground, etc. None of these would require digging with a "pointy" object to get at it. And even though a pointy object was used to place the original object, it wasn't used to place the cache. One other point. Has anyone ever done the Whitecliff Cache Course in Crestwood? I will guarantee you that pointy objects were used to place the waypoint markers AND the cache. But the cache is definite not buried. Yet I don't think anyone would deny that this cache is OK. Thus, it would be open to interpretation as to what you mean by "buried", but someone does need to perhaps elaborate a bit more than the wording in the rules to perhaps give some examples of when "buried" means "buried" according to the intent of the rules and maybe give examples of acceptable "buried" caches. It will never put the debate to rest, but it may limit the number of times the issues comes up. Mike Tollefson wrote: **************************************** Our WebPage! Http://WWW.GeoStL.com Mail List Info. //www.freelists.org/list/geocaching Mail List FAQ's: //www.freelists.org/help/questions.html **************************************** To unsubscribe from this list: send an email to geocaching-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field- Seems to conflict with what the gc.com website explicitly says under the heading "off limit (physical) caches." It says "Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive): " Point #2 - "Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate." This seems to suggest that you can't dig to hide a cache. I guess you can use your hands or are those "pointy" objects. Hmmm.... Nothing here about permission to bury - its just forbidden as is digging. Mike --- Glenn <Glenn@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: |
