[gameprogrammer] Re: Welcome new members!
- From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 17:53:54 -0600
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Vince <uberneen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I was in an interview once where this company had brought in their lead
> programmer, who was generally underwhelmed by my resume. What got his
> attention was that I was self taught and had been programming for several
> years just because I wanted to.
> I think that kind of passion goes with the territory, and without it a person
> is likely to be miserable in programming, regardless of their education.
>
> I was too busy raising kids or doing crazy things like enlisting to bother
> with college, but several of my friends did. One in particular studied
> computer science and specialized in programming. He was one of the few
> people I could talk to about my hobbies without getting a blank stare.
> I like to use him as an example of the quality of higher education being in
> the hands of the individual. He went to college without expecting to
> magically be given the qualifications for his trade. In many respects he did
> what we did, he just paid a lot more for it and probably had access to
> resources and people that made it a little bit easier.
Wow, you covered a lot in a very few sentences. I have a couple of
degrees in CS. I was a professional programmer including graphics and
games for better than 30 years. I teach computing "stuff" and once in
awhile I get to teach a game programming class. One thing I truly
believe is that no one every taught anyone anything. You can help
people learn, you can do a lot to make it easier to learn material.
But, in the end the learner does the learning on their own. I'm not
saying that school is pointless, far from it. A good course of study
will make sure you have seen the core concepts and developed minimal
skills needed to study the subject. That is about what a BS degree is.
An introduction to the core concepts and a chance to learn minimal
skills in a subject. It saves you from having to find out what the
core concepts are and it will try to force you to get minimal set of
skills by requiring you to go through a set of simple exercises.
And that comment feeds back to the passion part of this discussion. If
you are not passionate about a subject you will not spend the time
needed to learn it. If you want to speak a foreign language, you have
to spend time reading, writing, and speaking the language. In a class
you will be required to spend maybe 1% of the time reading, writing,
and speaking, that you need to do to learn the language. If you are
passionate about learning it you will find ways to do the rest on your
own. The same goes for programming, and it absolutely applies to game
development.
I get students who tell my they are taking a game development class
because they want to be game developers. But, they have never even
tried to write a game or ever read and article, let alone a book, on
the subject.
I used to wonder why anyone would think they could become anything
just by taking classes. Then I learned that there are a lot of people
out there who have never been taught that they can learn on their own.
Seriously, I meet people who believe they must be taught something.
They do not know that they can learn on their own. They do not have
the concept of teaching themselves. I've encountered schools who work
hard to make sure that they don't let them in on that secret either...
Bob Pendleton
>
> Vince~
>
> --- On Thu, 11/18/10, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Welcome new members!
>> To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 10:05 PM
>> To add my same story to the pile...
>>
>> I too am self taught, with no college degree.
>>
>> In high school I spent all my time coding games and apps
>> for fun / to
>> learn and read tons and tons of books on all sorts of
>> various subjects
>> in the computer science world.
>>
>> I'm just now hitting my 10 year mark as a professional
>> programmer, the
>> first 5 years were business programming jobs, and these
>> last 5 years
>> i've been working as a video game programmer.
>>
>> I'm currently working at a huge company in seattle and
>> loving it (and
>> am preforming comparable to my co-workers with degrees).
>>
>> Tons of personal projects over the years lay unfinished
>> just like you
>> guys, I sort of feel like they were learning experiences
>> that helped
>> me learn enough to get to where I am at today (:
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Richard Sabbarton
>> <richard.sabbarton@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > What I find interesting is the similarity I see with
>> my own career. I
>> > am also self taught and also have a vast array of
>> stalled projects
>> > (learning experiences) that never really made it off
>> the blocks. I
>> > didn't go on to college or university and have worked
>> my way up to a
>> > Lead Tech role in Operations for a Software Company.
>> I don't write
>> > code for a living but I do work with the development
>> team regularly.
>> >
>> > For me, the most difficult thing is motivation to
>> complete a project.
>> > When you hit a problem or writers block or even coming
>> back to
>> > something after a break it is hard to make the time.
>> In fact, I would
>> > say that the chatter on this list is a regular poke to
>> get me going
>> > again and help me remember that the reason I am doing
>> this is because
>> > I enjoy it.
>> >
>> > Just my 2p...
>> >
>> > Richard
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Harrington, Timothy
>> > <tharrington@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >> Thanks - I actually saw it as inspirational and
>> refreshing as well as eye-opening for the younger audience.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks again, Vince!
>> >>
>> >> Tim
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Vince
>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 1:51 PM
>> >> To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Welcome new
>> members!
>> >>
>> >> I don't mind if you share it. As I read over it
>> again I think it sounds a little depressed, which wasn't my
>> intent, but the facts remain the same.
>> >>
>> >> Vince~
>> >>
>> >> --- On Thu, 11/18/10, Harrington, Timothy <tharrington@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> From: Harrington, Timothy <tharrington@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Welcome new
>> members!
>> >>> To: "gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
>> <gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 6:11 PM
>> >>> Vince, there is a great story of
>> >>> lessons learned in this "novel" of yours -
>> would you mind if
>> >>> I shared it with students. I'd of course
>> change your name to
>> >>> protect your innocence! I'm often asked to
>> talk to high
>> >>> school and early level college students about
>> pursuing
>> >>> programming, and programming for game and
>> simulation
>> >>> especially. Your story really tells the
>> reality of the
>> >>> pursuit best.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks in advance,
>> >>>
>> >>> Tim Harrington, Ed.Dc.
>> >>> National Assistant Dean
>> >>> College of Engineering and Information
>> Science
>> >>> DeVry University
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
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--
+-----------------------------------------------------------
+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer
+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
+ web: www.TheGrumpyProgrammer.com
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