[gameprogrammer] Re: "Mission Efficiency" - Blue Collar coding

On Wed, 2004-05-12 at 12:18, Latimerius wrote:
> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:46:00AM -0500, Bob Pendleton wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2004-05-12 at 05:57, Latimerius wrote:
> > > On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 11:41:17AM -0500, Bob Pendleton wrote:
> > > 
> > > > And, to me the real big one, is that all of the major OO languages have
> > > > dropped the ability to create new classes of objects at run time. You
> > > > can't compose objects, or add new variables to a class, or add new
> > > > methods to a class at run time.
> > > 
> > > I'm pretty sure you can do that in Python.  (Of course if you consider
> > > Python not "major" or "OO" enough then it doesn't count. :-)
> > 
> > I had an intense negative emotional reaction to python when I was first
> > exposed to it and I try not to look at it at all. I guess I need to take
> > a detailed look at the language. May be I'll like it well enough to get
> > over my negative feelings toward the language.
> 
> Strange ... from what I see Python seems to have a pretty good overall
> reception.  I'm not trying to advocate it (in fact, I can't even claim I
> know the language) but I do remember the feeling of joy when I first
> checked it out not so long ago.  May I know the cause of your negative
> feelings toward Python?

Python uses indentation as part of its syntax. Which is just plain
wrong.

I have worked on too many projects where we made extensive use of
automatically generated code. When the target is a language like C you
don't need to worry about how the generated code is indented. You just
generate it. If you want it to look pretty have the make file run it
through a pretty printer.

The amount of extra effort needed to do that with Python boggles my
mind. Not to mention the problems of inserting code into other code
using macro expansion. 

Even editing Python code with out a specially designed editor has got to
be a pain. 

Then there is a the problem of reading new code while you are debugging
it. Leave out a space or tab and the meaning of the program changes and
you have no marker to tell you what what you really wanted to do.

Makes me cringe just thinking about it. I got about 10 pages into a book
on Python once, got to the point where they made it clear that Python
really uses indentation as syntax and I closed the book and walked away.
> 
> I'm trying to overcome my negative emotional reactions against languages
> or major libraries.  

I don't see why you would do that? Well, yes I do. But, I have found
that a negative emotional reaction points to a serious problem that your
intellect just hasn't figured out yet.

> I positively dislike things like Pascal or DirectX

I'm so so on Pascal, but then I haven't used it or looked at it since it
was the language Wirth invented. It has changed a lot since then.
DirectX gives me a headache. How did they manage to make it so complex?

> and I'm far from excited as far as Lisp is concerned, but, after all, if
> they allow me to do what I need to do ... I mean, WTF, they are just
> languages. ;-)

Ok, I see the ;-) at the end of the sentence... The words "just" and
"language" do not go together, ever. Languages shape how we think. The
old saying goes something like "When the only tool you have is a hammer,
then every problem is a nail". Since not all problems are nails you want
a lot of tools and the language is not just the most important tool, it
is the tool box.

                        Bob Pendleton

> 
>       latimerius
> 
> 
> 
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