[gameprogrammer] Re: Game programming wiki

On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 14:22 +0530, Gautam Narain wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> 
> Is the game programming wiki still on ? I would like to update it with a few 
> things like loading a 3ds file using lib3ds and a couple of collision 
> detection routines like sphere plane, box plane collision etc. Do I need any 
> kind of access or can I just create a page or do I send it to you.
> 
> Thanks
> Gautam Narain

Yes, it is still there. You don't need any special access, you don't
even need to register on the site, though that would be nice. Just pick
a place for your page and go to work. I think it should be under the
tutorials page.

                Bob Pendleton

> 
> 
> 
> >From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >To: gameprogrammer digest users <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: gameprogrammer Digest V2 #53
> >Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 02:03:45 -0500 (EST)
> >
> >gameprogrammer Digest        Wed, 06 Apr 2005        Volume: 02  Issue: 053
> >
> >In This Issue:
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >             [gameprogrammer] help with sdl_net and udp
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >             [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
> >             [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: help with sdl_net and udp
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
> >             [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >From: jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:27:19 +0200
> >
> >David Olofson wrote:
> >
> > >On Monday 04 April 2005 20.24, Scott Harper wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Real quick before we get into optimising OGL, just using 2D quads
> > >>for a game, do you even NEED to optimise it?  How bad of a framerate
> > >>hit are you getting?  What's your system like?  How many quads do
> > >>you have to be rendering before you start slowing down?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Well, as an example, my SDL port of XKobo, Kobo Deluxe, supports
> > >OpenGL rendering through a wrapper that implements the SDL 2D API
> > >over OpenGL. There are more layers of abstraction in between the game
> > >logic and the SDL API at that, and I haven't bothered optimizing
> > >anything on the low levels.
> > >
> > >Every sprite is a quad. Large surfaces are tiled - that is, multiple
> > >quads. Every glyph in the text that scrolls and slides around over
> > >the map in the intro mode is one or two (due to internal tiling of
> > >the extremely wide SFont surfaces) quads. Every single "non-space"
> > >pixel in the radar display is a quad. There is quite a bit of not too
> > >optimized tiling and clipping logic in between the emulated SDL API
> > >and OpenGL.
> > >
> >
> >Sorry for the delayed answer but i didn't get any email until I've
> >read the mailing list webpage!
> >
> >I don't really have a slowdown because i'm rendering with an average of
> >43 fps. The quads average per frame is 220. I was thinking in
> >optimizing because now i have a working platform and i'm curious
> >about how much improve i can get using display lists, vertex arrays,
> >etc.
> >
> >In other email I've read a quote about texture size from David. I've
> >used your glSDL idea of texture fake size. In the Intel extreme 2
> >opengl driver i have a maximum texture size of 1024, but i'm using
> >a maximum texture size of 256. With values over 256 I get a very big
> >slowdown. Then to use textures bigger than 256x256 i have to tile it.
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >From: David Olofson <david@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:55:37 +0200
> >
> >On Wednesday 06 April 2005 09.27, jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >[...]
> > > I don't really have a slowdown because i'm rendering with an average
> > > of
> > > 43 fps.
> >
> >Is that intentionally restricted, or why 43 fps?
> >
> >
> > > The quads average per frame is 220. I was thinking in
> > > optimizing because now i have a working platform and i'm curious
> > > about how much improve i can get using display lists, vertex arrays,
> > > etc.
> >
> >I might be misunderstanding what you're doing, but I have a feeling
> >you're wasting your time and potentially complicating your code for
> >no real reason. Find a minimum spec system and see if there's any
> >need for optimization at all.
> >
> >If you want to push the minimum spec down as far as possible, do some
> >profiling on hardware that isn't too far from what you're optimizing
> >for, and deal with the actual hot-spots.
> >
> >Of course, if you just feel like optimizing for fun, you define your
> >own rules and do whatever you have to. :-)
> >
> >
> > > In other email I've read a quote about texture size from David. I've
> > > used your glSDL idea of texture fake size. In the Intel extreme 2
> > > opengl driver i have a maximum texture size of 1024, but i'm using
> > > a maximum texture size of 256. With values over 256 I get a very big
> > > slowdown. Then to use textures bigger than 256x256 i have to tile
> > > it.
> >
> >Yeah, this seems to be pretty universal... You get better texture
> >space utilization with smaller tiles, at least if the "real" surfaces
> >have non-power-of-2 dimensions, but I don't see how that would
> >explain the rather substantial differences seen on most cards.
> >
> >
> >//David Olofson - Programmer, Composer, Open Source Advocate
> >
> >.- Audiality -----------------------------------------------.
> >|  Free/Open Source audio engine for games and multimedia.  |
> >| MIDI, modular synthesis, real time effects, scripting,... |
> >`-----------------------------------> http://audiality.org -'
> >    --- http://olofson.net --- http://www.reologica.se ---
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >From: jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:17:07 +0200
> >
> > >> I don't really have a slowdown because i'm rendering with an average
> > >> of
> > >> 43 fps.
> > >
> > >Is that intentionally restricted, or why 43 fps?
> >
> >No, it's not restricted. It's what i get when run a test game that
> >i have to test my graphic library. This game is the kind-of apps
> >that i expect to run with my library.
> >
> >
> > >> The quads average per frame is 220. I was thinking in
> > >> optimizing because now i have a working platform and i'm curious
> > >> about how much improve i can get using display lists, vertex arrays,
> > >> etc.
> > >
> > >I might be misunderstanding what you're doing, but I have a feeling
> > >you're wasting your time and potentially complicating your code for
> > >no real reason. Find a minimum spec system and see if there's any
> > >need for optimization at all.
> >
> >Well, I'm only experimenting new ways :-) I have develop a minimal
> >engine using only immediate mode because it's the easiest way and
> >i was learning my first steps in openGL. Then, once you know the
> >rudiments you try to improve your skills and that's what i'm trying :-)
> >But, for my purpouses, my graphic library now exceeds my initial
> >expectations. First I developed a version using only SDL, then
> >I made a first attempt to convert to openGL with your library glSDL
> >and finally, I rewrote it to a full openGL version using SDL to
> >initialization, event processing, sound, etc The most arduous tasks
> >was to get a properly openGL driver for my intel i865 (extreme 2)
> >with DRI and hardware acceleration under X11.
> >
> >
> > >If you want to push the minimum spec down as far as possible, do some
> > >profiling on hardware that isn't too far from what you're optimizing
> > >for, and deal with the actual hot-spots.
> > >
> > >Of course, if you just feel like optimizing for fun, you define your
> > >own rules and do whatever you have to. :-)
> >
> >I'm trying to optimize the way the rendering is to free the maximum
> >CPU time that i can, because my target platform is an embedded device
> >where the other processes are more important than the game, like real
> >devices control, sensors, etc. Then I'm trying to put the graphic chip
> >to work to unload the CPU.
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 08:13:48 -0400
> >From: Roger D Vargas <luo_hei@xxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] help with sdl_net and udp
> >
> >Can somebody give me a quick reference about how to set up a client
> >server system based on udp using sdl_net?
> >Im trying to create a basic server/client demo with sdl_net, but I have
> >some doubts about the right way to do it.
> >In server side I do this: Now I create an UDP socket, a socket set and
> >add that udp socket to socketset. I check socketset, if there are data y
> >receive it in an udp packet (not a vector of packets like in the demo).
> >If packet comes from unbound channel,
> >then it is a new client and I bind it to socket. Else, i must search
> >what client has that channel. Is that the correct way for the server
> >side?
> >In the client side I dont know exactly if I have to bind the socket or
> >do something else. Right now, I create the socket and add it to a
> >socketset.
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >From: Scott Harper <lareon@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
> >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:18:32 -0600
> >
> >You may well be doing this already, but some form of offscreen culling
> >is always helpful -- you take things that aren't visible and skip
> >rendering them.  In 2D, I think this is AMAZINGLY easy, as you needn't
> >perform any frustum calculations, etc.
> >
> >Also, display lists would be pretty easy to set up, I think, as you can
> >simply render a display list item for each tile (I'm probably
> >butchering the terminology here >.<), then call that display list have
> >offset where you want to put it.  Everything I've read seems to
> >indicate that great speed gains are made with display lists in larger
> >apps, because it seriously minimizes the number of methods (okay,
> >functions, since we're talking about C/C++ for SDL ^_^) called, which
> >(I recall) is generally one of the slower things you can do in
> >programming.  Along with division if I remember correctly.
> >
> >Hope some of this may be newer to you and offer aid in your search.  If
> >not, well, I tried. ^_^
> >
> >--Scott
> >
> >On 06 Apr, 2005, at 3:17 AM, jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > I'm trying to optimize the way the rendering is to free the maximum
> > > CPU time that i can, because my target platform is an embedded device
> > > where the other processes are more important than the game, like real
> > > devices control, sensors, etc. Then I'm trying to put the graphic chip
> > > to work to unload the CPU.
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:20:00 +0200
> >From: iso8859-1 <iso8859-1@xxxxxx>
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
> >
> >Hi everybody,
> >
> >I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> >directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> >scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> >changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> >z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> >The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> >
> >My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> >an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> >rest is easy.
> >
> >Best regards, Tobias
> >
> >P.S.: I'm sorry if it's a double post, but I had some problems with my mail 
> >program.
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:08:10 +0200
> >From: tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
> >
> >Hi everybody,
> >
> >I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> >directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> >scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> >changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> >z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> >The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> >
> >My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> >an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> >rest is easy.
> >
> >Best regards, Tobias
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: help with sdl_net and udp
> >From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:48:38 -0500
> >
> >On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 08:13 -0400, Roger D Vargas wrote:
> > > Can somebody give me a quick reference about how to set up a client
> > > server system based on udp using sdl_net?
> > > Im trying to create a basic server/client demo with sdl_net, but I have
> > > some doubts about the right way to do it.
> > > In server side I do this: Now I create an UDP socket, a socket set and
> > > add that udp socket to socketset. I check socketset, if there are data y
> > > receive it in an udp packet (not a vector of packets like in the demo).
> > > If packet comes from unbound channel,
> > > then it is a new client and I bind it to socket. Else, i must search
> > > what client has that channel. Is that the correct way for the server
> > > side?
> > > In the client side I dont know exactly if I have to bind the socket or
> > > do something else. Right now, I create the socket and add it to a
> > > socketset.
> >
> >Code to do all that with SDL_Net is in my net2 library. You can find it
> >at http://gameprogrammer.com/net2/net2-0.html you can either use my
> >library, or just look at the code that creates a udp connection.
> >
> >             Bob Pendleton
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------
> > > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >--
> >+--------------------------------------+
> >+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer +
> >+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx             +
> >+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com          +
> >+ www.Wise2Food.com                    +
> >+ nutrient info on 6,000+ common foods +
> >+--------------------------------------+
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
> >From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:00:15 -0500
> >
> >On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 18:20 +0200, iso8859-1 wrote:
> > > Hi everybody,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> > > directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> > > scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> > > changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> > > z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> > > The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> > >
> > > My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> > > an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> > > rest is easy.
> >
> >To draw on the screen you had to construct a matrix that transforms
> >object space to screen space. IIRC, the inverse of that matrix should
> >transform screen space into object space. So, transform the point you
> >get from the mouse into object space and then look up which tile covers
> >that point. Or, since getting the inverse can be a PITA and you need
> >just one matrix multiply for each point, you can transform your object
> >coordinates into screen space and do the comparison there.
> >
> >You could also read up on OpenGL "picking" and use that mechanism to do
> >the job. Picking provides a way to associate a tag with a primitive and
> >to test to see if the primitive passes through a small rectangle on the
> >screen. OpenGL will give you back the tag of every primitive that passes
> >through the picking rectangle.
> >
> >             Bob Pendleton
> >
> > >
> > > Best regards, Tobias
> > >
> > > P.S.: I'm sorry if it's a double post, but I had some problems with my 
> >mail program.
> >
> >That's ok, it wouldn't have been a double post if I read the list before
> >I checked for errors on the list. :-)
> >
> >             Bob Pendleton
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------
> > > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >--
> >+--------------------------------------+
> >+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer +
> >+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx             +
> >+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com          +
> >+ www.Wise2Food.com                    +
> >+ nutrient info on 6,000+ common foods +
> >+--------------------------------------+
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:12:18 -0700
> >From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
> >
> >What you want to do is look up "Picking" mode in GL or "selection"
> >mode as it is also called, check this out:
> >
> >http://www.lighthouse3d.com/opengl/picking/
> >
> >basicly what it does is make it so you can tell which objects are
> >drawn under the mouse position.  This is super awesome and useful
> >cause then you can have a super complicated 3 shape full of holes and
> >still be able to tell when the mouse is over it.
> >
> >zooming in and out dont complicate things, as this will still tell you
> >whats drawn under the mouse, no matter what it's distance from the
> >camera is (;
> >
> >
> >On Apr 6, 2005 9:08 AM, tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx
> ><tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Hi everybody,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> > > directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> > > scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> > > changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> > > z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> > > The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> > >
> > > My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> > > an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> > > rest is easy.
> > >
> > > Best regards, Tobias
> > >
> > > ---------------------
> > > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> > >
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:42:37 +0200
> >From: Stephane Marchesin <stephane.marchesin@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
> >
> >tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > >Hi everybody,
> > >
> > >I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> > >directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> > >scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> > >changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> > >z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> > >The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> > >
> > >My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> > >an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> > >rest is easy.
> > >
> >I'll add in my answer as well :) In simple cases such as yours, it's
> >sufficient to use gluUnProject()
> >
> >Stephane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >End of gameprogrammer Digest V2 #53
> >***********************************
> >
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> 
> 
> 
-- 
+--------------------------------------+
+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer +
+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx             +
+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com          +
+ www.Wise2Food.com                    +
+ nutrient info on 6,000+ common foods +
+--------------------------------------+



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