[gameprogrammer] Game programming wiki

Hi Bob,

Is the game programming wiki still on ? I would like to update it with a few 
things like loading a 3ds file using lib3ds and a couple of collision 
detection routines like sphere plane, box plane collision etc. Do I need any 
kind of access or can I just create a page or do I send it to you.

Thanks
Gautam Narain



>From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: gameprogrammer digest users <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: gameprogrammer Digest V2 #53
>Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 02:03:45 -0500 (EST)
>
>gameprogrammer Digest  Wed, 06 Apr 2005        Volume: 02  Issue: 053
>
>In This Issue:
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>               [gameprogrammer] help with sdl_net and udp
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>               [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
>               [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: help with sdl_net and udp
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
>               [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>From: jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:27:19 +0200
>
>David Olofson wrote:
>
> >On Monday 04 April 2005 20.24, Scott Harper wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Real quick before we get into optimising OGL, just using 2D quads
> >>for a game, do you even NEED to optimise it?  How bad of a framerate
> >>hit are you getting?  What's your system like?  How many quads do
> >>you have to be rendering before you start slowing down?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Well, as an example, my SDL port of XKobo, Kobo Deluxe, supports
> >OpenGL rendering through a wrapper that implements the SDL 2D API
> >over OpenGL. There are more layers of abstraction in between the game
> >logic and the SDL API at that, and I haven't bothered optimizing
> >anything on the low levels.
> >
> >Every sprite is a quad. Large surfaces are tiled - that is, multiple
> >quads. Every glyph in the text that scrolls and slides around over
> >the map in the intro mode is one or two (due to internal tiling of
> >the extremely wide SFont surfaces) quads. Every single "non-space"
> >pixel in the radar display is a quad. There is quite a bit of not too
> >optimized tiling and clipping logic in between the emulated SDL API
> >and OpenGL.
> >
>
>Sorry for the delayed answer but i didn't get any email until I've
>read the mailing list webpage!
>
>I don't really have a slowdown because i'm rendering with an average of
>43 fps. The quads average per frame is 220. I was thinking in
>optimizing because now i have a working platform and i'm curious
>about how much improve i can get using display lists, vertex arrays,
>etc.
>
>In other email I've read a quote about texture size from David. I've
>used your glSDL idea of texture fake size. In the Intel extreme 2
>opengl driver i have a maximum texture size of 1024, but i'm using
>a maximum texture size of 256. With values over 256 I get a very big
>slowdown. Then to use textures bigger than 256x256 i have to tile it.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: David Olofson <david@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:55:37 +0200
>
>On Wednesday 06 April 2005 09.27, jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>[...]
> > I don't really have a slowdown because i'm rendering with an average
> > of
> > 43 fps.
>
>Is that intentionally restricted, or why 43 fps?
>
>
> > The quads average per frame is 220. I was thinking in
> > optimizing because now i have a working platform and i'm curious
> > about how much improve i can get using display lists, vertex arrays,
> > etc.
>
>I might be misunderstanding what you're doing, but I have a feeling
>you're wasting your time and potentially complicating your code for
>no real reason. Find a minimum spec system and see if there's any
>need for optimization at all.
>
>If you want to push the minimum spec down as far as possible, do some
>profiling on hardware that isn't too far from what you're optimizing
>for, and deal with the actual hot-spots.
>
>Of course, if you just feel like optimizing for fun, you define your
>own rules and do whatever you have to. :-)
>
>
> > In other email I've read a quote about texture size from David. I've
> > used your glSDL idea of texture fake size. In the Intel extreme 2
> > opengl driver i have a maximum texture size of 1024, but i'm using
> > a maximum texture size of 256. With values over 256 I get a very big
> > slowdown. Then to use textures bigger than 256x256 i have to tile
> > it.
>
>Yeah, this seems to be pretty universal... You get better texture
>space utilization with smaller tiles, at least if the "real" surfaces
>have non-power-of-2 dimensions, but I don't see how that would
>explain the rather substantial differences seen on most cards.
>
>
>//David Olofson - Programmer, Composer, Open Source Advocate
>
>.- Audiality -----------------------------------------------.
>|  Free/Open Source audio engine for games and multimedia.  |
>| MIDI, modular synthesis, real time effects, scripting,... |
>`-----------------------------------> http://audiality.org -'
>    --- http://olofson.net --- http://www.reologica.se ---
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:17:07 +0200
>
> >> I don't really have a slowdown because i'm rendering with an average
> >> of
> >> 43 fps.
> >
> >Is that intentionally restricted, or why 43 fps?
>
>No, it's not restricted. It's what i get when run a test game that
>i have to test my graphic library. This game is the kind-of apps
>that i expect to run with my library.
>
>
> >> The quads average per frame is 220. I was thinking in
> >> optimizing because now i have a working platform and i'm curious
> >> about how much improve i can get using display lists, vertex arrays,
> >> etc.
> >
> >I might be misunderstanding what you're doing, but I have a feeling
> >you're wasting your time and potentially complicating your code for
> >no real reason. Find a minimum spec system and see if there's any
> >need for optimization at all.
>
>Well, I'm only experimenting new ways :-) I have develop a minimal
>engine using only immediate mode because it's the easiest way and
>i was learning my first steps in openGL. Then, once you know the
>rudiments you try to improve your skills and that's what i'm trying :-)
>But, for my purpouses, my graphic library now exceeds my initial
>expectations. First I developed a version using only SDL, then
>I made a first attempt to convert to openGL with your library glSDL
>and finally, I rewrote it to a full openGL version using SDL to
>initialization, event processing, sound, etc The most arduous tasks
>was to get a properly openGL driver for my intel i865 (extreme 2)
>with DRI and hardware acceleration under X11.
>
>
> >If you want to push the minimum spec down as far as possible, do some
> >profiling on hardware that isn't too far from what you're optimizing
> >for, and deal with the actual hot-spots.
> >
> >Of course, if you just feel like optimizing for fun, you define your
> >own rules and do whatever you have to. :-)
>
>I'm trying to optimize the way the rendering is to free the maximum
>CPU time that i can, because my target platform is an embedded device
>where the other processes are more important than the game, like real
>devices control, sensors, etc. Then I'm trying to put the graphic chip
>to work to unload the CPU.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 08:13:48 -0400
>From: Roger D Vargas <luo_hei@xxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] help with sdl_net and udp
>
>Can somebody give me a quick reference about how to set up a client
>server system based on udp using sdl_net?
>Im trying to create a basic server/client demo with sdl_net, but I have
>some doubts about the right way to do it.
>In server side I do this: Now I create an UDP socket, a socket set and
>add that udp socket to socketset. I check socketset, if there are data y
>receive it in an udp packet (not a vector of packets like in the demo).
>If packet comes from unbound channel,
>then it is a new client and I bind it to socket. Else, i must search
>what client has that channel. Is that the correct way for the server
>side?
>In the client side I dont know exactly if I have to bind the socket or
>do something else. Right now, I create the socket and add it to a
>socketset.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Scott Harper <lareon@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: Optimizing opengl rendering
>Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:18:32 -0600
>
>You may well be doing this already, but some form of offscreen culling
>is always helpful -- you take things that aren't visible and skip
>rendering them.  In 2D, I think this is AMAZINGLY easy, as you needn't
>perform any frustum calculations, etc.
>
>Also, display lists would be pretty easy to set up, I think, as you can
>simply render a display list item for each tile (I'm probably
>butchering the terminology here >.<), then call that display list have
>offset where you want to put it.  Everything I've read seems to
>indicate that great speed gains are made with display lists in larger
>apps, because it seriously minimizes the number of methods (okay,
>functions, since we're talking about C/C++ for SDL ^_^) called, which
>(I recall) is generally one of the slower things you can do in
>programming.  Along with division if I remember correctly.
>
>Hope some of this may be newer to you and offer aid in your search.  If
>not, well, I tried. ^_^
>
>--Scott
>
>On 06 Apr, 2005, at 3:17 AM, jorgefm@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > I'm trying to optimize the way the rendering is to free the maximum
> > CPU time that i can, because my target platform is an embedded device
> > where the other processes are more important than the game, like real
> > devices control, sensors, etc. Then I'm trying to put the graphic chip
> > to work to unload the CPU.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:20:00 +0200
>From: iso8859-1 <iso8859-1@xxxxxx>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
>directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
>scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
>changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
>z-coordinate (10 in my case).
>The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
>
>My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
>an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
>rest is easy.
>
>Best regards, Tobias
>
>P.S.: I'm sorry if it's a double post, but I had some problems with my mail 
>program.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:08:10 +0200
>From: tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] OpenGL and mouse click location
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
>directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
>scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
>changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
>z-coordinate (10 in my case).
>The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
>
>My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
>an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
>rest is easy.
>
>Best regards, Tobias
>
>------------------------------
>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: help with sdl_net and udp
>From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:48:38 -0500
>
>On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 08:13 -0400, Roger D Vargas wrote:
> > Can somebody give me a quick reference about how to set up a client
> > server system based on udp using sdl_net?
> > Im trying to create a basic server/client demo with sdl_net, but I have
> > some doubts about the right way to do it.
> > In server side I do this: Now I create an UDP socket, a socket set and
> > add that udp socket to socketset. I check socketset, if there are data y
> > receive it in an udp packet (not a vector of packets like in the demo).
> > If packet comes from unbound channel,
> > then it is a new client and I bind it to socket. Else, i must search
> > what client has that channel. Is that the correct way for the server
> > side?
> > In the client side I dont know exactly if I have to bind the socket or
> > do something else. Right now, I create the socket and add it to a
> > socketset.
>
>Code to do all that with SDL_Net is in my net2 library. You can find it
>at http://gameprogrammer.com/net2/net2-0.html you can either use my
>library, or just look at the code that creates a udp connection.
>
>               Bob Pendleton
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------
> > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> >
> >
> >
>--
>+--------------------------------------+
>+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer +
>+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx             +
>+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com          +
>+ www.Wise2Food.com                    +
>+ nutrient info on 6,000+ common foods +
>+--------------------------------------+
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
>From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:00:15 -0500
>
>On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 18:20 +0200, iso8859-1 wrote:
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> > directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> > scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> > changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> > z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> > The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> >
> > My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> > an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> > rest is easy.
>
>To draw on the screen you had to construct a matrix that transforms
>object space to screen space. IIRC, the inverse of that matrix should
>transform screen space into object space. So, transform the point you
>get from the mouse into object space and then look up which tile covers
>that point. Or, since getting the inverse can be a PITA and you need
>just one matrix multiply for each point, you can transform your object
>coordinates into screen space and do the comparison there.
>
>You could also read up on OpenGL "picking" and use that mechanism to do
>the job. Picking provides a way to associate a tag with a primitive and
>to test to see if the primitive passes through a small rectangle on the
>screen. OpenGL will give you back the tag of every primitive that passes
>through the picking rectangle.
>
>               Bob Pendleton
>
> >
> > Best regards, Tobias
> >
> > P.S.: I'm sorry if it's a double post, but I had some problems with my 
>mail program.
>
>That's ok, it wouldn't have been a double post if I read the list before
>I checked for errors on the list. :-)
>
>               Bob Pendleton
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------
> > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> >
> >
> >
>--
>+--------------------------------------+
>+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer +
>+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx             +
>+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com          +
>+ www.Wise2Food.com                    +
>+ nutrient info on 6,000+ common foods +
>+--------------------------------------+
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:12:18 -0700
>From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
>
>What you want to do is look up "Picking" mode in GL or "selection"
>mode as it is also called, check this out:
>
>http://www.lighthouse3d.com/opengl/picking/
>
>basicly what it does is make it so you can tell which objects are
>drawn under the mouse position.  This is super awesome and useful
>cause then you can have a super complicated 3 shape full of holes and
>still be able to tell when the mouse is over it.
>
>zooming in and out dont complicate things, as this will still tell you
>whats drawn under the mouse, no matter what it's distance from the
>camera is (;
>
>
>On Apr 6, 2005 9:08 AM, tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx
><tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> > directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> > scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> > changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> > z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> > The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> >
> > My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> > an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> > rest is easy.
> >
> > Best regards, Tobias
> >
> > ---------------------
> > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:42:37 +0200
>From: Stephane Marchesin <stephane.marchesin@xxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: OpenGL and mouse click location
>
>tobias.langner@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> >Hi everybody,
> >
> >I'm trying to write a tile-based game in OpenGL/SDL. The camera looks
> >directly down on the map (no isometric view, just top-down). The
> >scrolling is realised via translating the map and zooming is realised by
> >changing the angle in gluPerspective. So the map remains at a fixed
> >z-coordinate (10 in my case).
> >The tiles are textured quads using pngs as textures.
> >
> >My question is: How do I determine which tile the user clicked on? Even
> >an algorithm without the zoom and scrolling would be perfect since the
> >rest is easy.
> >
>I'll add in my answer as well :) In simple cases such as yours, it's
>sufficient to use gluUnProject()
>
>Stephane
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of gameprogrammer Digest V2 #53
>***********************************
>

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