[gameprogrammer] Re: 3D C++/DirectX programmer wanted

On Mon, 2005-12-12 at 16:19 -0500, Laurence Grant wrote:
> > 
> 
> > No need for an apology. Nothing you have said or done is off topic
> for
> 
> > the list and the level of discussion is pretty normal for a proposal
> 
> > like yours. There are always people who question every aspect both
> 
> > technical and human, the result can be pretty enlightening. 
> 
>  
> 
> Point taken.  I guess I just expected interested parties to reply, not
> begin a debate.  I've posted a similar request on some forums and not
> started a discussion thread off of it, but you are right, it's all
> good natured discussion
> 
>  
> 
> > I have heard that too many times to take it seriously. You should
> take
> 
> > reviews like that with a large, very large, grain of salt. Remember
> that
> 
> > they are reviewing what they think they are hearing after applying
> their
> 
> > own wish fulfillment function to the discussion.
> 
>  
> 
> True, but these are also my opinion as well.  The few people who are
> working with me also fell in love with the concept and thatʼs why they
> joined the team, not just for the love of gaming, but because they
> were looking for a team with a unique vision and a place to call home

This is very true. Why don't you post more about your vision?

> 
>  
> 
> > Chasing the technology merry-go-round is a good way to kill a game.
> A
> 
> > good game is a good game regardless of the technology. If you do
> want to
> 
> > chase the merry-go-round then decide what you think technology will
> be
> 
> > like in 3 years and code for that. 
> 
>  
> 
> -- see below
> 
>  
> 
> > Stop restarting and just build the game. If it is good you will be
> able
> 
> > to update it for the latest technology. If not, well, then you can
> write
> 
> > another game. What you are describing is the main reason most
> hobbyist
> 
> > games never get done. You aren't really trying to write a game. You
> have
> 
> > some other goal in mind (like creating a game engine better that
> what
> 
> > Carmack has ever done) and are spending your time on that rather
> than on
> 
> > finishing games.
> 
>  
> 
> I agree 100% percent.  Most of the time had been spent not developing
> the game but understanding the technology well enough to build one. 

Yeah, that is a serious problem, and not the one I thought you were
talking about. 

>  Too much learning and prototyping in the game just creates a mess.  I
> needed to get to a point where I knew enough of the technologies being
> used to architect a nice clean system, and I believe I'm at that point
> now.
> 
>  
> 
> I also feel strongly that a good game doesn't need the best engine,
> and I don't want to build a "Carmack" killer.  To the contrary, I want
> the focus on the game play.  You are right I am spending way too much
> time on the engine, but only because I felt no existing engines
> provided the adaptability and dynamics of what I need.  I don't want
> to compete in the engine market, I just get a good enough engine that
> the game will be given an opportunity and not overlooked before it
> even gets a chance
> 
>  
> 
> > If that is the long term plan then you need to create a company,
> assign
> 
> > all the IP to the company, and dole out ownership to people as they
> 
> > contribute. The "trust me" approach sounds like a con and turns
> people
> 
> > off very quickly. I am not saying you are trying to con anyone. I
> really
> 
> > do not think you are. But, since no one knows you and you have no
> 
> > reputation then you can't afford even a whiff of untrustworthy
> behavior.
> 
> > That is just the way it works. 
> 
>  
> 
> See this is where people keep talking about making money and getting
> paid, etc...  That's not the purpose of this project.  I know I've
> chatted with other developers some have joined me and some haven't,
> but a common theme is that many of them were looking for a project to
> call home.  Not everyone has a vision of what they think would be a
> great game, or the ability to build it even if they had the vision.
> Many people just love gaming and coding and would love to meet some
> people with a similar interest and work with them on a project.  There
> are a ton of open source and freeware games out there.

Yeah, but you still have to be aware of, and address the problems of,
intellectual property rights. Even if it is purely planned for just
learning and having fun you have to deal with the legalities because
they exist. Many people (ok, everyone I know, including me) are
unwilling to work on a project where all property rights go to someone
else, unless they are being paid. If you want people to contribute for
free, then the property has to be free (as in liberty, not beer). That
is one of the ways open source works. The way to do that is to put the
property under and open source license. 


> 
>  
> 
> I'm just wanting to build a team, make some friends and have some fun.
> If down the road something more happens then great for all of us, but
> that's not the purpose or intent.

Sounds wonderful. But, like I said, if you don't keep track of the IP
rights and handling things the right way then you can end up down the
road and up the creek. 

> 
>  
> 
> > Very good point. OTOH, do you have clearance from Oracle to do this
> 
> > project? Is there any way that Oracle can claim ownership of the IP
> that
> 
> > you are creating? If you do not have a signed agreement with Oracle
> 
> > granting the IP to you, then they most likely already own it.
> 
>  
> 
> This has nothing to do with Oracle, and doesn't require clearance.  I
> don't work for Oracle, and I'm not doing anything unethical.  

Ah, I thought from all you said that you worked for Oracle. My mistake.
I never stated or implied that you were doing anything unethical. What I
was worried about are standard clauses in every employment contract I
have ever seen where the company tries to claim ownership of every
thought I have, at any time of the day or night, while I work for them.
Many of us are in situations where we do not by default own anything we
create. So, we have to get written clearance before we start any
personal projects to ensure that we *do* own our work. In a couple of
cases I stopped developing a personal project because the company was
only willing to grant first refusal rights to my work, not out right
ownership.

> Aside from my award which had nothing to do with gaming, my only
> involvement in Oracle is that I want to use their database technology
> for the server side of this game.  Oracle provides their engine free
> of charge for a development environment, it's called "Oracle Database
> 10g Express Edition", so I am well within legal rights to use the
> product the way I am

Yes, of course. You misunderstood what I was talking about.

> 
>  
> 
> Thanks for all the feedback, it was very enlightening, and I'm
> enjoying all the other comments being made.

I'm glad. I'm enjoying this too. 

                Bob Pendleton

> 
>  
> 
> 
-- 
+--------------------------------------+
+ Bob Pendleton: writer and programmer +
+ email: Bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx             +
+ web: www.GameProgrammer.com          +
+ www.Wise2Food.com                    +
+ nutrient info on 7,000+ common foods +
+--------------------------------------+



---------------------
To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html


Other related posts: