[fsf60k] Re: Solution/good news
- From: George Pardo <pardo123@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: Peter White <pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:13:21 -0400
Pedro,
Although the water from the existing well can be used for irrigation, at
this point in time, I don't think the Nuevos will be willing to invest the
money to irrigate. In their situation, I probably would not have the vision
to act any different. The other issue, to contend with, in trying to use
the exisitng well, is the local authority that has closed it down. I feel
it may be quite difficult to prove to them that the water is being
exclusively used correctly. In the long run, if we help them establish the
use of the Steven's filter or another filter it would probably be a positve
thing, but considering that we have the heat issue which demands expensive
equipment and the filtering issue, it makes the existing well not
economically attractive if there is another option. We need to compare the
numbers between the 2 options and see what makes sense from an economic
point of view and also from a scheduling point of view. I am sure we all
agree that we would pay a little more if we could resolve the water issue
sooner than later, although on the surface what Mike is working on has the
potentional of being less expensive than further developing the existing
well.
You and Mike hopefully will be able to determine the quality of the proposed
well as well as the quantity available per day. It may be a wise investment
to buy some sort of gps. If you can provide me the distance and height
differnece between the proposed location of the well and the NA tanks, I
will track someone down to design the system including size of tanks, tower
heights and pipe sizes. The design may be reinterpreted locally but at
least we will have a better chance of success, and not work by trial and
error, as has occurred in the past, as a result of circumstance and time
issues.
Have a great trip and I hope you much success.
Ciao,
Jorge
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Peter White <pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Hola George. I will be with Mike for the next few days, and this NA water
> problem will be one of our major tasks. Bill spoke of making sure of the
> "replenishment" factor in any new water area. We're not buying anything
> until all facts have been found and all agree that it is the next best step.
> I still think there must be some utility for the present well in NA, even
> with 40ppb. I don't know how they tested the well to get that count, did
> they purge the well like we had done when we got a reading of 12ppb last
> year or two years ago? I don't know. Also, the water with the 40ppb, if it
> is that, can still be used for crops and bathing and maybe even animals,
> just not human consumption. Maybe a smaller generator, not the big $4000
> Pedro Lopez generator that Monica and Glen bought in July 07, might get the
> water up for local use by biointensive gardens, other fields, and other
> uses. And maybe the new site can provide the drinking water. We'll get all
> the facts we can and return with hopefully plenty of info before any money
> is put forth. Please ask any questions or make any comments over the next
> few days to Mikes email so we can use them while there. I'll be returning on
> Monday July 27. Lisa and Mike will be returning that day also. Lisa left
> today for Nica, I leave tomorrow. PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* George Pardo [mailto:pardo123@xxxxxxxxx]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:29 AM
> *To:* Michael AR Cipoletti
> *Cc:* richard wiltamuth; Peter White; billcpf@xxxxxxx;
> lisapflanagan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; fsf60k@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; skornblatt@xxxxxxxxx;
> kelleystanford@xxxxxxxxx; abbyfl57@xxxxxxxxx; tlog0201@xxxxxxxxx;
> clubgomes@xxxxxxx; jzima28@xxxxxxx; nycus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: Solution/good news
>
> are you referring the existing well? Maybe a test can be done to determine
> what is the max gallons per day that it can sustain. that is what we did
> with the other well. We should really do this before we buy a parcel of
> land. don't know if you were already panning to do this but a reminder,
> just in case.
>
> Ciao,
> Jorge
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Michael AR Cipoletti <ikecip@xxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Well has a depth of 220 feet (approx)
>> mc
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2009, at 8:22 PM, richard wiltamuth <dwiltam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> the well in cortizal seems to offer many advantages---less or no
>> arsenic, cooler, cheaper equipment and promise of longer equipment
>> lifespan. what is depth of water? is this the well with the wheel where we
>> drew water for nuevo a few years ago? would need to have the water tested
>> several times to make sure of arsenic and other potential contaminants.
>> would need the government to test and approve the water before we sink money
>> into this project. if this source is technically feasible, given the longer
>> distance the water has to travel, would be a good solution. maybe we could
>> buy the rights to pump a certain quantity of water rather than buying the
>> land where the well is located. easements would have to be arranged for the
>> pipes.
>> am concerned about the nuevo community's ability to use the arsenic
>> filters as intended, given their track record with the diesel generator and
>> lack of literacy. the less equipment involved, the less that can go wrong.
>> mike, thanks for your tireless work on this; am glad you're on the scene
>> like an agua machine. you and the others will make a solution happen much
>> faster.
>> dick w.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Michael AR Cipoletti < <ikecip@xxxxxxx>
>> ikecip@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> I met with Salvador Mora the gentleman from ENICAL that informed us of
>>> the issue. I also spoke with several folks from the public health center in
>>> UNAN LEon.. There seems to be a trend of rising arsenic levels in this
>>> watertable due to a variety of factors. They forsee the problem worsening
>>> over time.. There is however a good potential solution. In the community of
>>> Cortizal located about 1000 meters from the location of the existing well
>>> with clean cool water. The temperature of the water is under 80 degrees and
>>> has tested clean for several years. Salvador conchita Marco and a couple of
>>> the students will be driving to nuevo tomorrow morning to assess the
>>> possibilities of the location and look into the land/ownership/selling
>>> price..
>>> This site if viable would enable us to use the solar pump we originally
>>> were going to purchase (half the price/easier to obtain) and could
>>> potentially benefit more people....
>>> Salvador also said there is the possibilty of an electric generator being
>>> wired in or a standard generator with a solar invertor to pump the water.
>>> Additionally the existing tubing tanks seem as if they would still work
>>> all we would need to do is connect the tanks to the new water source.
>>> I am happy with todays findings and the students and I will be making
>>> this task a priority over the coming week.
>>> I will send an update tomorrow afternoon. Wish us luck.
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 16, 2009, at 11:03 PM, George Pardo < <pardo123@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> pardo123@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Very bad news indeed.
>>>
>>> As far as the arsenic is concerned, it can be taken out of the water. We
>>> can get the materials from Dr. Meng to put together the filters, probably
>>> for about $30 each. The chemicals I recall to be about $4-5$ per year.
>>> This is a viable option if we trust the people to operate the filters
>>> properly. They do already use a filter for bacteria. I also looked at a
>>> point of distribution filter that would be put by the well but that source
>>> is not yet totally available, although could be developed for the future.
>>> The Dr. Meng (Steven's) filter is a sure thing. We could demonstrate the
>>> filter to MINSA and get approval to open the well.
>>>
>>> The water, even with 40ppb arsenic, is still suitable for bathing and
>>> irrigation if it is not poured on the part of th plant that you eat and not
>>> rinsed. If you irrigate at the roots no problem. Something like lettuce or
>>> cabbage could be a problem if not watered properly. Corn would be no
>>> problem because it is covered by the husk.
>>>
>>> Pete I don't think the crushing of the rock has anything to do with the
>>> arsenic just the depth of the well. The deeper wells are more likely to
>>> have arsenic.
>>>
>>> According to Dr. Meng there is no way to predict where there will be
>>> clean water in a region where there is arsenic. You can have well with
>>> 900ppb and 30' away have a well that is acceptable. Drilling is trial and
>>> error. The only way to be sure to get clean water is to drill where there
>>> is already a good well. One option is to drill in a remote location that is
>>> known to be good and pipe the water to NA. This will invlove additional
>>> costs and additional complexity. This was suggested by the organization
>>> that did the water project in Chac.
>>>
>>> The main problem with drilling is the cost of drillling through rock. If
>>> there is an area in NA, perhaps in the 20's where there is no rock, it would
>>> be worth the chance to drill several wells to in order to find a clean one.
>>> Maybe the water there may not be as hot.
>>>
>>> The question in my mind would be, do we want to deal with the arsenic and
>>> temperature of the water in NA or is it best to pipe the water in from
>>> somewhere else where the temperature is moderate, letting us use cheaper
>>> pumps, and without arsenic. The trade off would probably a high tower tower
>>> and a larger tank and the possibly a couple of miles of pipe and negotiating
>>> the rights to lay that pipe, possibly through public and private land.
>>>
>>> I think I would try to drill in the 20's at least 1 well and test the
>>> temperature of the water and arsenic. If there is a lower temperature that
>>> would enable us to use a cheaper pumping system and we could use the
>>> Steven's filter for the aresenic. If we hit rock I would abandon that well
>>> and perhaps look into piping the water in from a remote location.
>>>
>>> Mike and Pete hopefully you can gather some data on the ground in Nica
>>> that can be used to develop a good direction. Good luck at the very least.
>>>
>>> Please comment on the above options. Thanks.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Peter White <
>>> <pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> pedro831@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hola. Brace yourselves for sure. Mike arrived in Nica late yesterday to
>>>> the
>>>> news that the Nica govt. org., Minsa?, tested the water in NA and found
>>>> it
>>>> to be 40 ppb arsenic, too high considering the nat'l standard is now 10
>>>> ppb.
>>>> They suggested closing the well. We have spent a lot of time on this
>>>> project, including two years ago educating ourselves about arenic from
>>>> Dr.
>>>> Meng from the STevens Instit. of Tech. in Hoboken, NJ, who believes and
>>>> has
>>>> proven that arsenic can be removed cheaply, safely, etc. However this
>>>> may be
>>>> of no value if the Nica govt orders the well closed. The other bad news
>>>> is
>>>> that the two year old diesel motor is unable to be repaired. So the
>>>> people
>>>> are without water and walking for water I suppose. Mike is going to be
>>>> asking a multitude of questions of the MINSA people and others, and
>>>> putting
>>>> his head together with Conchita, Martin, and others about what the next
>>>> step/s are. Please think about this and get your questions to Mike or me
>>>> asap. I am going down to Nica for a quick five day visit July 23-27.
>>>> This
>>>> was supposed to be a joyous visit in part, as we were going to see the
>>>> contract for the installation of the solar water project in NA and put
>>>> up
>>>> half the money in order to get the project going. Now we are really set
>>>> back. The real problem is the continued suffering of the people.
>>>> The good news I suppose is that we aren't going to be throwing more
>>>> money
>>>> into the old generator if it is kaput. Also we are not going to spend
>>>> $25000
>>>> on a solar project for a well that may be of no use anymore. Mike says
>>>> that
>>>> there is a clean water source about 2K from NA, which we know about (I
>>>> think). I beleive it is where the bomba de mescate is located. That's
>>>> where
>>>> the people walk to when there is no water. It is a hand/rope pump that
>>>> is
>>>> cumbersome, tiresome, slow, etc. but it has clean water. Or, maybe it
>>>> isn't
>>>> clean and no one ever tested there??? Frankly, a good portion of Nica is
>>>> with bad water, so what are we to do? I dont' see how La UNion, only 1K
>>>> away, has good water (or maybe it isn't either) and NA is bad. We need
>>>> everyone to think, suggest, provide ideas, etc. so we can move forward
>>>> somehow.
>>>> I remember Dr. Meng saying that the arsenic isn't really in the deep
>>>> water
>>>> naturally but that arsenic is released from the crushing of the rock
>>>> when
>>>> deep wells, where water lies below a level of rock, are perforated. In
>>>> NA,
>>>> the first 40 feet or so was dirt. Then they hit rock which was 60 - 65
>>>> feet.
>>>> The rate of descent was slow, the big drill bit broke a few times, but
>>>> finally the driller struck the water they've been using since Aug. 07.
>>>> Problem probably is that the arsenic gets into the water from the
>>>> crushing
>>>> of the rock I guess. I'm not the expert here, but I just hope they can
>>>> locate a place where we can begin anew, cheaply, with good water and
>>>> then
>>>> solarize it from the outset. Be well. Pray. PW
>>>>
>>>>
>>> =
>>
>>
>> =
>
>
>
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