[frgeek-michiana] Re: Server update gone bad
- From: Marc R Rockwell <marcrrockwell@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 10:16:05 -0500
if you guys need any pci cards for this let me know i will lokk through my
stuff and see what i still have !!!
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Imre <imreb321@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Can the server boot from usb? If it's older 4-5 years old then probably
> not. But if you were able to boot from usb then you put a rescue cd on a
> flash drive. I use unetbootin available in ubuntu and debian.
>
> On Sat, 2012-01-07 at 14:07 -0500, Tom Brown wrote:
> > The PATA drives are in a raid configuration, probably a simple mirror.
> > Richard thinks the onboard IDE controllers have raid capability. It is
> > also possible the raid is software, not hardware, based. If I move the
> > PATA drives to the IDE expansion card (no raid), might I lose the raid
> > and possibly data? If data is not jeopardized, that would be a good
> > solution to preserving the data and booting the system with a rescue
> > disc. However, without assurance the data is safe, I’m hesitant to
> > disturb the raid.
> >
> >
> >
> > Another option is to connect the optical drive to the slave position
> > on one of the onboard IDE cables though I don’t know how that might
> > affect the raid configuration. Hopefully, not at all.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > From: frgeek-michiana-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:frgeek-michiana-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chuq
> > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 08:34
> > To: frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [frgeek-michiana] Re: Server update gone bad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Typically the bios will not see an optical drive that is on an IDE
> > expansion card. I would move the optical drive to the main board, move
> > the hdd's to the ide expansion card and re-reun grub (grub-probe) and
> > see the results of such.
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > Phil is right. The PATA drives are connected to the main board
> > IDE
> > channels.
> >
> > There are two expansion cards in the PCI daughter board
> > (riser): an
> > Ethernet card and a two-channel IDE card. Channel 1 of the IDE
> > expansion
> > card is connected to the DVD drive.
> >
> > Phil and I wanted to boot from the original DVD drive to
> > inspect and
> > possibly edit the Grub menu list. The BIOS was not reporting
> > the
> > original optical drive so we replaced it. The BIOS continues
> > to report
> > the FD and the two PATA HDs, both connected to the main board,
> > but still
> > does not report the optical drive.
> >
> > Last night I reseated the PCI riser bus, the IDE expansion
> > card and the
> > data and power cables to the optical drive. The BIOS still
> > wouldn't
> > report it although the LED in the optical drive lights up
> > during
> > bootstrap. Oddly, the Linux kernel detects and reports the
> > optical
> > drive. But, because the BIOS doesn't "see" the optical drive,
> > it is not
> > in the Boot Order menu, and the BIOS won't boot from it.
> >
> > My options seem to be:
> >
> > 1. Replace the IDE/optical drive data cable.
> > 2. Move the IDE/optical drive to channel 2 on the PCI
> > expansion card.
> > 3. Replace the DVD optical drive with a simpler CDROM drive.
> > 4. Connect the optical drive to the slave data connector on
> > one of the
> > onboard PATA HD cables.
> > 5. Replace the PCI IDE expansion card.
> >
> > Tom --
> >
> > Mike Cook wrote:
> > > It sounds like the raid card isn't being used for raid which
> > would seem to indicate that either no raid is being used for
> > the hard drives or that the server is running software raid
> > and using the raid card for additional ide channel(s). I have
> > seen. some ide raid cards (Promise) that use the onboard ide
> > channels though. I would proceed carefully if we wish to
> > salvage data.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > >> From: Imre <imreb321@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> Sent: Jan 5, 2012 12:06 PM
> > >> To: frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: [frgeek-michiana] Re: Server update gone bad
> > >>
> > >> Then it seems to me that's the problem. The motherboard
> > bios is not
> > >> seeing the optical drive, therefore it cannot boot from it.
> > The optical
> > >> is probably being recognized by the raid card bios only.
> > But the system
> > >> will not be able to boot from the optical. You have to
> > connect the
> > >> optical to the onboard ide.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 16:47 -0500, Phil wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> The hard drives are connected to the motherboard directly,
> > one each on the IDE channels. The optical is connected the
> > RAID (PCI IDE) card.
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent via Android, G2
> > >>>
> > >>> Richard Zimmerman <ke4rit@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> I looked at the raid setup on the colo server
> > (/proc/mdstat says raid
> > >>>> arrays fine :) )
> > >>>>
> > >>>> here's what it reads out on cat /boot/grub/menu.lst
> > >>>>
> > >>>> <readout>
> > >>>> ## ## End Default Options ##
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel
> > 2.6.26-2-openvz-686
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-openvz-686
> > root=/dev/md0 ro vga=791
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-2-openvz-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel
> > 2.6.26-2-openvz-686 (single-user mode)
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-openvz-686
> > root=/dev/md0 ro single
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-2-openvz-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-686
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-686 root=/dev/md0
> > ro vga=791
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-2-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-2-686
> > (single-user mode)
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-686 root=/dev/md0
> > ro single
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-2-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel
> > 2.6.26-1-openvz-686
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-openvz-686
> > root=/dev/md0 ro vga=791
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-1-openvz-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel
> > 2.6.26-1-openvz-686 (single-user mode)
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-openvz-686
> > root=/dev/md0 ro single
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-1-openvz-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686 root=/dev/md0
> > ro vga=791
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.26-1-686
> > (single-user mode)
> > >>>> root (hd0,5)
> > >>>> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.26-1-686 root=/dev/md0
> > ro single
> > >>>> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.26-1-686
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
> > >>>> </readout>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> colo mounts root=/dev/md0
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The error "mount: mounting /dev/hda2 on /root failed:
> > Device or
> > >>>> resource busy" would make sense as it's attached to the
> > array md0...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If you can get onto the array.... mount /dev/md0 look at
> > the menu.lst file...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> /dev/md1 should be the swap file IIRC...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Richard
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Tom Brown
> > <tbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I tried to boot the server off an Ultimate Boot CD
> > (UBCD) Phil carries in
> > >>>>> his kit. The goal was to find, copy and edit the GRUB
> > conf file. btw, the
> > >>>>> contents of the Grub conf file are displayed on the
> > console for about 1-2
> > >>>>> seconds, too fast for me to pause the console output.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The server wouldn't boot off the optical drive even
> > though we set it as the
> > >>>>> first boot device. The BIOS continued to boot off the
> > hard drive. Phil and I
> > >>>>> disconnected and reconnected cables with no improvement.
> > Assuming the BIOS
> > >>>>> doesn't see the optical drive or the drive is broken, we
> > installed a DVD ROM
> > >>>>> from inventory. We must have disconnected the floppy
> > drive because the
> > >>>>> server won't boot and throws the type of error you'd
> > expect from a bad or
> > >>>>> disconnected FD. We ran out of time and will pick it up
> > again tonight,
> > >>>>> starting with reconnecting the FD.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Here is what I transcribed from the end of the console
> > on booting. It
> > >>>>> appears the BIOS is not using UUID. The init script
> > finds hda (hda1, hda2)
> > >>>>> and hdc (hdc1, hdc2) so I’ll quote the init output from
> > there.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> <boot log snippet>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Begin: Mounting root files system ...
> > >>>>> Begin: Running /scripts/local-top ...
> > >>>>> Begin: Loading md: raid1 personality registered for
> > level 1
> > >>>>> Success: loaded module raid1.
> > >>>>> done.
> > >>>>> Begin: Assembling all MD arrays ...
> > >>>>> md: md0 stopped.
> > >>>>> md: bind<hdc2>
> > >>>>> md: bind<hda2>
> > >>>>> raid1: raid set md0 active with 2 out of 2 mirrors
> > >>>>> mdadm: /dev/md0 has been started with 2 drives.
> > >>>>> Success: assembled all arrays.
> > >>>>> done.
> > >>>>> Begin: waiting for udev to process events ... done.
> > >>>>> done.
> > >>>>> Begin: Running /scripts/local-premount ... kinit:
> > name_to_dev_t(/dev/hda1) =
> > >>>>> hda1(3,1)
> > >>>>> kinit: trying to resume from /dev/hda1
> > >>>>> PM: Starting manual resume from disk
> > >>>>> kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot...
> > >>>>> resume: libgcrypt version: 1.4.1
> > >>>>> done.
> > >>>>> mount: mounting /dev/hda2 on /root failed: Device or
> > resource busy
> > >>>>> Begin: Running /scripts/local-bottom ... done.
> > >>>>> done.
> > >>>>> Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ... mount:
> > mounting /dev on /root/dev
> > >>>>> failed: No such file or directory
> > >>>>> done.
> > >>>>> mount: mounting /sys on /root/sys failed: No such file
> > or direcotry
> > >>>>> mount: mounting /proc on /root/proc failed: No such file
> > or directory
> > >>>>> Target filesystem doesn’t have /sbin/init.
> > >>>>> No init found. Try passing init= bootarg.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 1:1.10.2-2) built-in shell
> > (ash).
> > >>>>> Enter 'help' for a list of commands.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> /bin/sh: can’t access tty; job control turned off
> > >>>>> (initramfs) _
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> </boot log snippet>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Tom --
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Imre B wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> # blkid
> > >>>>>> will show disks with their UUID
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Tony Germano
> > <tony_germano@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Is the UUID used anywhere besides fstab and maybe the
> > boot loader? It
> > >>>>>>> makes
> > >>>>>>> sense to use it there when you have multiple drives
> > because it guarantees
> > >>>>>>> that your mounts will all work even if boot order
> > changes for some
> > >>>>>>> reason.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Each file system is assigned a UUID upon creation. You
> > can use the basic
> > >>>>>>> tools for that file system to find out what the UUID
> > is. It will never
> > >>>>>>> change, even if you move the drive to a different
> > server. It will also
> > >>>>>>> not
> > >>>>>>> change if you clone the partition.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> If you are able to boot from a cd, I think you can use
> > tune2fs -l
> > >>>>>>> /dev/<hdxx> to see the UUID for the file system on a
> > given partition
> > >>>>>>> (assuming it is ext2/3/4.)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> This page also lists some other ways (I haven't tried
> > them) to get the
> > >>>>>>> UUID
> > >>>>>>>
> >
> http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/short-tip-get-uuid-of-hard-disks/
> > >>>>>>> The ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid way looks pretty cool. I
> > didn't know that
> > >>>>>>> directory was there.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Tony
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:46:07 -0500
> > >>>>>>>> From: tbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>>> To: frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [frgeek-michiana] Re: Server update gone bad
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Sorry to reply so late. I've been very busy over the
> > holiday and out of
> > >>>>>>>> town for a few days.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I ran 'apt-get update' using the default 'stable'
> > sources, but that
> > >>>>>>>> listed a lot of unverified packages which turned out
> > to be Squeeze
> > >>>>>>>> packages so I never started the upgrade. After some
> > research I realized
> > >>>>>>>> I needed to stay at Lenny by changing the sources
> > from 'stable' to
> > >>>>>>>> 'Lenny' as stable now means 'squeeze'. That seemed to
> > work as the number
> > >>>>>>>> of unverified packages were very few.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I don't know UUID. I'll research it at the workshop
> > tonight.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> afaik, there is no data backup. I'll try booting with
> > a rescue disk and
> > >>>>>>>> poke around. As a last resort, I will pull the drives
> > and try to read
> > >>>>>>>> them on another system. I don't know yet whether the
> > drives are SCSI,
> > >>>>>>>> SATA, PATA or some combination. I believe the drives
> > were in some sort
> > >>>>>>>> of RAID config.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Tom --
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Richard Zimmerman wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Reminds me since we are on the subject...
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Colo server IS LOCKED to "Lenny" and I have every
> > intention of leaving
> > >>>>>>>>> it there....
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> If a new server admin takes over, his or her call
> > then...lists
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> BTW, also speaking from experience after I toasted
> > my home server on a
> > >>>>>>>>> blind 'dist-upgrade' option.... (from the Lenny to
> > Squeeze upgrade)
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ***********************************
> > >>>>>>>>> NEVER EVER USE IT AGAIN
> > >>>>>>>>> ***********************************
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> That BTDT thing I mentioned in the previous email
> > also happened on my
> > >>>>>>>>> home server but I got lucky and recovered it....
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Now days I **ONLY** use the 'safe-upgrade' option...
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Lessons learned the hard way about 8 months ago...
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Goose
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> / Where is the old RedHat 5.2 when you want it? It
> > was simple and 'just
> > >>>>>>>>> worked'
> > >>>>>>>>> // Debian Lenny is the same way. Functional and
> > 'just works'
> > >>>>>>>>> /// Why keep screwing with it...???
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Richard Zimmerman
> > <ke4rit@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> If I'm reading it correctly. You pretty well
> > screwed the server....
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> The new Debian forces everything to that NOT SO
> > wonderful UUID Crap
> > >>>>>>>>>> for everything. If you then rolled back to Lenny,
> > congrats, you own a
> > >>>>>>>>>> toasted server....
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> BTDT, you pretty screwed... That happened to me....
> > Happen to have a
> > >>>>>>>>>> backup of the server?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Goose
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> / Happened on a server at work. FORTUNATELY, I had
> > grab some dead
> > >>>>>>>>>> hardware out of the back room and had used it so it
> > wasn't a
> > >>>>>>>>>> production server I toasted...
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> // Left all work servers @ Lenny and have been
> > researching finding a
> > >>>>>>>>>> distro that DOES NOT use UUID. That crap is for the
> > birds....
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> /// Maybe force it UUID in Debian for the win!
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> //// If I can't find a distro that doesn't use
> > UUID, guess I'll be
> > >>>>>>>>>> retiring as a server admin....
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Tom Brown
> > <tbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Mike started a hard drive wipe too late to
> > complete by closing time
> > >>>>>>>>>>> last
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thursday. I started a warehouse server update
> > which also didn't
> > >>>>>>>>>>> complete
> > >>>>>>>>>>> before we departed so Mike and I left the systems
> > running with the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> intention
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would stop by the warehouse today and turn off
> > the computers.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Mike's DBAN wipe completed so I turned off the PC.
> > The server update
> > >>>>>>>>>>> completed so I rebooted to test the update.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> When the server first tried to boot it died trying
> > to load drivers
> > >>>>>>>>>>> for
> > >>>>>>>>>>> hdc
> > >>>>>>>>>>> or the next item after that; I couldn't tell
> > which. I turned the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> server off,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> booted and got the following errors.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Running /scripts/inti-bottom ... mount:
> > mounting /dev on /root/dev
> > >>>>>>>>>>> failed:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> No such file or directory
> > >>>>>>>>>>> done
> > >>>>>>>>>>> mount: mounting /sys on /root/sys failed: No such
> > file or directory
> > >>>>>>>>>>> mount: mounting /proc on /root/proc failed: No
> > such file or directory
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> No init found. Try passing init=bootarg.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 1:1.10.2-2) built-in shell
> > (ash).
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Enter 'help' for a list of commands.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> /bin/sh can't access tty; job control turned off
> > >>>>>>>>>>> (initramfs) __
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> A Google search didn't find anything in the first
> > two pages of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> results
> > >>>>>>>>>>> which
> > >>>>>>>>>>> exactly applies to the problem and update back
> > story.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The source lists for apt-get were set to "stable"
> > repositories. Since
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Debian advanced to v6.x 'Squeeze', stable was
> > resulting in v6
> > >>>>>>>>>>> packages
> > >>>>>>>>>>> which
> > >>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't verify. So I changed 'stable' to
> > 'Lenny' (Debian v5.x) in
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> sources list, and the update/upgrade sequence went
> > much better (until
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> rebooted).
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure if there was a kernel update or not.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The server is running RAID and possibly LVM. I
> > seldom use either so
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not
> > >>>>>>>>>>> well versed on either. Also, Debian uses Grub
> > (possibly several
> > >>>>>>>>>>> versions of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Grub). Grub runs on my Ubuntu 10.04 LTS netbook
> > install, but I never
> > >>>>>>>>>>> touch
> > >>>>>>>>>>> it.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Tom --
> > >>>>>>>>>>> ** This list is PUBLICLY archived. **
> > >>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE don't post personal or sensitive
> > information unless you wish
> > >>>>>>>>>>> for it
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to be in the public domain. Email addresses are
> > removed from the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> archive but
> > >>>>>>>>>>> other items included in the body of the email will
> > be shown.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> To visit the main website for Free Geek Michiana
> > go to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.freegeekmichiana.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> To post to the list send email to
> > frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The archive is available at
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> > by going to the list
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> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>> Richard "Goose" Zimmerman, ke4rit
> > >>>>>>>>>> Mishawaka, IN
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ** This list is PUBLICLY archived. **
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> > >>>>>>>>
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> > to
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> > frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>> The archive is available at
> > >>>>> //www.freelists.org/archives/frgeek-michiana/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> You may unsubscribe or change your list settings by
> > going to the list
> > >>>>> website at
> > //www.freelists.org/webpage/frgeek-michiana
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Richard "Goose" Zimmerman, ke4rit
> > >>>> Mishawaka, IN
> > >>>> ** This list is PUBLICLY archived. **
> > >>>> PLEASE don't post personal or sensitive information
> > unless you wish for it to be in the public domain. Email
> > addresses are removed from the archive but other items
> > included in the body of the email will be shown.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To visit the main website for Free Geek Michiana go to
> > http://www.freegeekmichiana.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To post to the list send email to
> > frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> The archive is available at
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/frgeek-michiana/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You may unsubscribe or change your list settings by going
> > to the list website at
> > //www.freelists.org/webpage/frgeek-michiana
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> N+--ryv-vȭ+b{,ʋ_ފ{az'fIVvޚu^j!-鬊w%ם{ayʇj)pY[zht
> > +"^ןkyzC"r(my&bjv見-azXǧu隊[h~zIryb(y܆+ފƯj)ZnWmyb(ڭb?~zIrآ칻
> > &ޢ!jxʋ+-mx,o((x-^+-ךmyb(yZ߮h&
> > >>>
> > >> ** This list is PUBLICLY archived. **
> > >> PLEASE don't post personal or sensitive information unless
> > you wish for it to be in the public domain. Email addresses
> > are removed from the archive but other items included in the
> > body of the email will be shown.
> > >>
> > >> To visit the main website for Free Geek Michiana go to
> > http://www.freegeekmichiana.org
> > >>
> > >> To post to the list send email to
> > frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> The archive is available at
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/frgeek-michiana/
> > >>
> > >> You may unsubscribe or change your list settings by going
> > to the list website at
> > //www.freelists.org/webpage/frgeek-michiana
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > ** This list is PUBLICLY archived. **
> > > PLEASE don't post personal or sensitive information unless
> > you wish for it to be in the public domain. Email addresses
> > are removed from the archive but other items included in the
> > body of the email will be shown.
> > >
> > > To visit the main website for Free Geek Michiana go to
> > http://www.freegeekmichiana.org
> > >
> > > To post to the list send email to
> > frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > The archive is available at
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/frgeek-michiana/
> > >
> > > You may unsubscribe or change your list settings by going to
> > the list website at
> > //www.freelists.org/webpage/frgeek-michiana
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ** This list is PUBLICLY archived. **
> > PLEASE don't post personal or sensitive information unless you
> > wish for it to be in the public domain. Email addresses are
> > removed from the archive but other items included in the body
> > of the email will be shown.
> >
> > To visit the main website for Free Geek Michiana go to
> > http://www.freegeekmichiana.org
> >
> > To post to the list send email to
> > frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > The archive is available at
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/frgeek-michiana/
> >
> > You may unsubscribe or change your list settings by going to
> > the list website at
> > //www.freelists.org/webpage/frgeek-michiana
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ** This list is PUBLICLY archived. **
> PLEASE don't post personal or sensitive information unless you wish for it
> to be in the public domain. Email addresses are removed from the archive
> but other items included in the body of the email will be shown.
>
> To visit the main website for Free Geek Michiana go to
> http://www.freegeekmichiana.org
>
> To post to the list send email to frgeek-michiana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> The archive is available at
> //www.freelists.org/archives/frgeek-michiana/
>
> You may unsubscribe or change your list settings by going to the list
> website at //www.freelists.org/webpage/frgeek-michiana
>
>
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