Re: [foxboro] foxboro Digest V9 #177

Joe,

Re: Banned
I can't see why. Honest opinions delivered with passion make life interesting.


All,

Re: Documenation tools
There is an alternative that one should consider - PAS' Integrity - 
http://www.pas.com/products.aspx?contentId=28.


I have no idea as to the commercial differences between the products, but I can 
see non-commercial ones:

1) IPS and PAS work to ensure that Integrity product works properly with the 
I/A Series system and supports our product direction, e.g., documenting 
configurations maintained by the IEE.

2) Integrity can document much more than just the I/A Series system. Since most 
clients have systems from multiple vendors, one tool to document them all seems 
like a good feature to me.


Regards,
 
Alex Johnson
Invensys Process Systems
10900 Equity Drive
Houston, TX 77041
+1 713 329 8472 (desk)
+1 713 329 1600 (operator)
+1 713 329 1944 (SSC Fax)
+1 713 329 1700 (Central Fax)
alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Joseph M. Riccardi
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:29 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] foxboro Digest V9 #177

Jean-Christophe,
For years now, especially recently with the "Foxboro Digest V9 #177" thread
discussing reasons why/why not to replace existing Foxboro IA Systems, there
have been much discussions in this users' group about the shortcomings of
the Foxboro IA Systems.  Before anyone jumps ship and replaces their Foxboro
IA Systems, please consider the following...

I know I am walking that fine line again ...  

I hate to keep touting the benefits of Foxray (which is what I have done a
number of times on this site) so before I do it again, please allow me an
opportunity to justify my position, without too much detail because I could
go on, and on, and...; and before I am banned from this site:
*       I worked for Foxboro for 20 years until 2000.  I grew up on Spec200,
InterSpec, Spectrum, a variety of interim systems, and then the IA System.
*       Since 2000, I have been an independent contractor working on other
DCSs/PLCs, but still mostly the Foxboro IA System.  Yes, all of these other
DCSs/PLCs have their plusses and minuses (none of them are even close to
being great), as does the Foxboro IA System.
*       But overall, the Foxboro IA System is a very powerful, albeit
complex system, and I like it (or least I like much more of it than not)!  I
believe someone just recently stated that "there was nothing they could not
do with the Foxboro IA System".  IMHO, it has the most powerful set of
control blocks (always Foxboro's strong point) and tons of utilities/tools
to supplement them (some consider this a positive, others consider it a
negative).  So maybe HMI/displays are not their strong point (never was;
remember VideoSpec/Fox 3).

Hopefully, I have made enough positive Foxboro statements above to get away
with the following negative opinion...
*       The Foxboro IA System's biggest software negative is that there are
"multiple" databases/configurations/etc. (ICC/IACC, HLBL, DM/FV, Historians,
annunciator keyboards, alarms, OAJ, documentation, just to name a few).  And
you are basically blind inside the control and display and other
environments because there is no "simple", on-line mapping/visualization, or
tracing of inputs/outputs; or any "simple", on-line way of finding out "ALL"
connections to any/all blocks/displays/Historians/annunciator
keyboards/OAJs/etc.  Try to delete or even change a single, critical block
or display and find out what it takes to ensure 100% that any and all
connections or references are found and addressed.  It would take hours (and
I still only made it to 99 44/100% a few times).*
*       Foxray supplements the variety of IA System software packages and
not only fills this huge gap, but it simplifies the entire process.  And it
does it all!  Are there any Foxray users out there that can name something
it does not provide in the way of a "single" source of "all" data in the
Foxboro IA System?

Now throw in Foxray's Change Tracking, Management of Change, Alarm
Management, and a few other features and you have an unbeatable combination;
FOXBORO IA SYSTEM (UNIX and/or Windows) + FOXRAY.  I hope everyone
(especially the Foxboro/Invensys folks and the Cassandra Gods) keeps my
comments in prospective.  I can just see Duc hitting the remove key for my
account now.  None of the above was intended to degrade the Foxboro IA
System, nor was it intended to increase Foxray sales.  It was solely
intended to let existing Foxboro users (I am still one and I use Foxray)
know that there truly is something out there that makes living life with a
Foxboro IA System not only bearable, but fun again.  I actually get excited
to use it (and at my age, that can be dangerous) because it makes working on
the IA System faster/easier/safer/etc.  I realize this has no bearing on
someone considering the new Foxboro InFusion System, and it does not address
the IA System hardware issues, but there are still a ton of existing Foxboro
IA System users out there that are stuck with it (maybe that was not the
best choice of words) so all I am trying to do is let these users know there
is something available that makes up for many of its sins.  Now getting your
management to spend the few pittance it costs is another hurdle...

*  By the way, the process above that I stated would take hours to
accomplish would take < 1 minute with Foxray.

PS.  To specifically answer Jean-Christophe's question, there is no
comparison between Foxray and FoxCTS/FoxCAE/etc.  Again, FoxCTS/FoxCAE/etc.
are all single function, independent programs, not integrated into a total
on-line solution tool.  The Foxray folks can answer your other specific
questions.  If you are serious, and honestly believe you can get it funded,
just ask them for an on-line demo.

In case nobody hears from me again, it has been a great experience being a
member of this users' group.  I honestly believe, especially with Alex
Johnson's (and many other existing Invensys/Foxboro employees) religious
involvement, that the IA System would not be as popular or successful
without the Cassandra Project web site and this foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
mailing list.  You have certainly helped me many, many times...


Joseph M. Riccardi
DCS Services - Industrial Process Control
 
Joe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
"To give real service you must add something that cannot be bought or
measured with money; and that is sincerity and integrity." - Donald A. Adams


-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of MUTI, Jean-Christophe
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:04 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] foxboro Digest V9 #177

Hi Rick and all others,

Man asked me to use FoxRay I one of our Plants, and I would like to hear
your advice about it. 
Is it eating a lot of CPU when running its tasks?
Do you have Foxview running in this PC?
What is the different between this tool and FoxCTS for example, talking
about traceability of course?
I think the major advantage is that it can do a lot of things were Invensys
need may be have 2 or 3 softwares (if they exist) to do the same?

Thank u all



-----Message d'origine-----
De : foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] De
la part de Rguercio@xxxxxxx
Envoyé : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:15 PM
À : foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; foxboro-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Objet : Re: [foxboro] foxboro Digest V9 #177

I hope I didn't start a sh*tstorm - that wasn't my intention.  I am in  
Delta V training because my next client is using Delta V and I need to be  
conversant in a hurry.  I still love IA, especially Foxview/FoxDraw with
all 
its quirks (should be a lot easier to create a new tag display from an old  
one without having to enter the same tag name in 3 to 20 places, etc).
There 
are some things I like better in Delta V and some things I don't so  far.  
I am biased toward IA, probably mostly because I am used to it, but I  have 
found that I can do just about anything with it I have been asked to  do.  
There have been a lot of growing pains with the move to the MESH, and  the 
main system I have been working on is only partway through that painful  
migration.  And too often "progress" is littered with lost functionality
and 
reduced hardware (Dell) reliability.  But, dang it, I still like the  system
- 
especially if the initial implementation is engineered properly.   And with 
tools like FoxRay, it is becoming much easier to use even for an old  codger

like me.  Rick Guercio
 
RGC
12803 Josey Creek Ct.
Cypress, TX 77433
713-805-8742  cell
281-256-1111 home office/FAX
281-256-1333 home  
 

 
 
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