Re: [foxboro] Why do people use PCs to show DM/FV (Inspired by Du al headed Humm ingbird displays)

We use PC-Exceed for the same main reason than everybody: Costs.
But we have issues with this config. We have 4 WP51B with one PC-Exceed
each, and sometimes the PC crashes, or the WP "slows down" when both
operators use them...we need to reset most of the times...

I don't see this among your experiences...our versions maybe ? 

Reards
Jaime Claramunt
Inforsa Paper Mill

-----Mensaje original-----
De: tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Enviado el: Martes, 29 de Junio de 2004 11:46
Para: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: Re: [foxboro] Why do people use PCs to show DM/FV (Inspired by
Du al headed Humm ingbird displays)


Alex,
        Our initial decision to use PC's running Hummingbird to call up
remote DM's in our Central Control Room was all about economics.  We moved
from individual WP-20/30's that could only drive one screen per processor,
to WP-51's with dual video cards and later PC's with Hummingbird calling
remote DM's.  I've pulled some prices of those items out of old orders to do
comparisons.  This pricing took into account advantage upgrades and the best
discount prices we could negotiate with our vendors at the time.  Using 10
Display Heads as a system requirement you can quickly appreciate the value
of Dual Video PC's using Hummingbird to call remote DM's.  It saves over
$40,000 per each 10 display heads.  Our Central Control Room has 60 display
heads so you'd have to multiply these numbers by 6 to get a picture of the
economic impact of our decision to use PC's running DM's.  I'm not including
the CRT's or all of the special keyboards and cables that were also required
with the older display solutions.  As a result of our efforts using PC's and
Hummingbird in conjuntion with 60% fewer WP51D's, we were able to save over
$240,000 on that project.  
        As I said at the beginning, our initial decision was economic but we
gained much more than that because there were also requirements to have
Windows PC's at the operator consoles for use in calling up enterprise
applications such as OSI PI, SAP, SOP's, intranet, email, Excel
spreadsheets, etc... Our operating technicians are able to access all of
that information from different applications on a single display head
because of the PC solution. Dual headed Linux PC's could produce even
greater savings but we couldn't sway the IT guys to let us make that leap.
        In an ideal world, I would like the control system HMI to be
accessed in exactly the same window as all of the other applications I
mentioned.  It would also be great if it wasn't dependent upon a specific
operating system.  I could use Windows, Linux, Sun OS, Unix, ... and blend
information from any of those applications into the same display.  Many
think that is a pipe dream and yet we all use an HMI like that every day as
we browse the internet looking for information.  We don't even know which OS
the data is being served from or how many different apps are used to display
it, we just know that we get what we need on the screen in front of us.  We
can use our browser running on Windows, Linux, Sun OS, UNIX, or ???.
        I thought the Invensys framework called "Archestra" was driving
toward that end because it is the ultimate way for them to provide a common
HMI for all of their diverse software products.  Yes, it means that they
would lose a lot of income that was generated by their individual and
proprietary HMI's but it opens up business in providing customers with high
value added applications, web servers, and SQL database structures that can
enable their customers and give them exactly what they need in an HMI.  I
haven't kept close tabs on Wonderware's direction but the HMI is their piece
of the Invensys pie.  I believe the idea of Archestra really originated in
the WonderWare camp but someone can correct me if my assumption is wrong.
        As far as what we'd be willing to pay for an HMI, I'd have to say
anything less than the $ 5,212.80 per display head that we currently pay, if
it also provides more functionality than what exists today.  That is the way
of an open marketplace.  Get more for less.

Tom VandeWater

Fox Part#       Description
List Price      Qty.Reqd.
J0173ZJ Workstation Processor 30 Software License               $  4,843.00
10
P0960GC Workstation Processor 30                                $  8,044.00
10
                WP-30 cost/per each display head                        $
12,887.00
                WP-30 solution for 10 display heads
$128,870.00

P0999XM WP20 To WP51 Advantage Software Upgrade License $10,882.00
5
P7621039F171 WORKSTATION PROCESSOR 51                           $ 3,376.00
5
P0971WV Dual Nodebus Interface Module                           $ 1,301.00
5
J0177AA Additional Display Manager Lic (5 User)                 $ 7,955.00
2
                WP51D cost/per each display head                        $
9,370.50
                WP51D solution for 10 display heads
$93,705.00

P0999XM WP20 To WP51 Advantage Software Upgrade License $10,882.00
2
P7621039F171 WORKSTATION PROCESSOR 51                           $ 3,376.00
2
P0971WV Dual Nodebus Interface Module                           $ 1,301.00
2
J0177AA Additional Display Manager Lic (5 User)                 $ 7,955.00
2
                Pentium PC with Win2K OS and dual video card    $ 1,500.00
3
                Hummingbird Exceed License                              $
200.00      3
                WP51D/Exceed PC cost/per each display head      $ 5,212.80
                WP51D/Exceed PC solution for 10 display heads   $52,128.00

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Johnson, Alex
(Foxboro)
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:02 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [foxboro] Why do people use PCs to show DM/FV (Inspired by Dual
headed Humm ingbird displays)


If you don't mind, I'd like to ask the community of users about how and why
they use PCs to show FV/DM displays. I know that this is not scientific, but
I'm curious.
 

 

So, if you use PCs, would you please answer a few questions for me?

 

1)                How are the PCs used?

a.                On a scale of 0 to 10 where

                                                          i.      0 is never
uses I/A Series Applications and 

                                                      ii.      10 is never
uses non-I/A Series applications (except eXceed of course), where would you
rank the use of your PCs?

 

For example, I think a 10 user is an operator console, a 7 or 8 user might
have company specific programs that need to be run on operator console, a 3
user might be a PC at home used for dial-up support.

 

2)                Why are PCs used?

a.                Low-Cost

b.                Environmental hardening

c.                Remote location hard to reach with a PC

d.                Dial-up (or VPN or whatever) access from home

 

3)                What other types of HMI (beside WPs) should we be
offering?

 

 

Thanks,

 

AJ



 
 
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