Re: [foxboro] USB disgust

Troy,
        I will be interested in hearing if you can restore your
mouse/keyboard by killing only the Motif applications running on the
P81's.  Do you always lose both the mouse and the keyboard at the same
time?  We usually recognize the problem when our keyboard is unable to
enter passwords or type in setpoint or output changes to controllers.
At that time, we can still use the mouse to dismiss the Alarm Manager,
(Motif), application.  Killing the AM immediately restores keyboard
functionality for the Display Manager, (X App).  We never have to kill
the DM and even if we do it doesn't restore the keyboard because it is
ALWAYS being held hostage by the Alarm Manager, (Motif App).  In a P81,
where Display Manager isn't supported, you are forced to use both
Foxview and Alarm Manager, (both Motif apps).  It seems likely that you
are even more susceptible to lock-ups, and that, coupled with the
enormity of converting and tweaking all of our DM graphics to Foxview is
a show stopper for us to ever go to Foxview, especially if we have to
pay more money to do it.
        We mount our SUN CPU's in locked 19" remote racks that are
behind our display consoles.  This keeps inquiring minds from
experimenting with our hardware and puts the boxes in a much cleaner
environment away from spilled coffee, soft drinks, drool....  This
arrangement requires extending the mouse/keyboard cables.  I hadn't
thought before that our intermittent lockup problems might be associated
with a combination of Motif, coupled with extension cables.  I've heard
it said before that there may be a correlation with Sun boxes that run
dual display heads, (all of ours do).  How about yours Troy?  Are you
also using dual display adapters on your new P81's?
        As for feeling like we are being punished for using UNIX, it
feels more like being ignored.  Foxboro and IA users now know that the
future IA applications will be developed in an all MS environment so
there is less and less incentive/motivation to fix bugs or issues on the
UNIX side of things.  As users, the time is coming where you will have
to make a conscious decision to stay with UNIX with only current
functionality, (no more development), or move into a MicroSoft
environment, because that is where Foxboro will be spending their
development dollars. =20
        Current MS application offerings are not compelling enough to
entice most users with a large installed UNIX base to make the leap.  I
think that will have to change in the future if Foxboro is to remain
competitive in the Control System marketplace.  The MESH network is a
potential motivator to migrate to newer equipment but hasn't yet forced
users to run all MS servers and apps, but it is just a matter of time.
Given current direction, the UNIX boxes on the Mesh will be relegated to
boot servers and display workstations and may not be able to run any
legacy X apps, (already no DM).  When Foxview is replaced by the Next
Generation Graphic package, (MS Only??), it is very possible that the
UNIX Display stations will also become dinosaurs.  The story is sad but,
most likely, true.

Cheers,
Tom VandeWater

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Troy L Brazell
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:47 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] USB disgust


Tom,
I do have remote capabilities and will try your suggestion next time.
All
that I can say is thank goodness for Exceed!!!
I am 4 and 1/2 hours away from this plant. I will be back at site next
week
and have a couple of things I want to try.
Usually I have had really good luck with Foxboro be interested and
supportive on major issues like this. I may be just paranoid, but are
UNIX
user starting to be punished for dislike of Windoze? Surely not!!
Thanks for your input!

Troy L. Brazell
Duke Energy Field Services
Sr. Process Control Analyst
ISA CCST
Phone (405) 263 4130
Cell    (405) 301 2994
Okarche Plant
Route 3 Box 95
Okarche, OK. 73762
*****************************
MS Windoze the cure for Insomnia
*****************************


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             "tjvandew@xxxxxxx

             om"

             <tjvandew@xxxxxxx
To=20
             om>                       foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

             Sent by:
cc=20
             foxboro-bounce@fr

             eelists.org
Subject=20
                                       Re: [foxboro] USB disgust

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             12/09/2005 07:05

             AM

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             Please respond to

             foxboro@freelists

                   .org

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=20





Troy,
             We don't have any experience with P81's but this sounds
like
it could
be the problem that we still experience on our WP51D's and Foxboro has
given us the same story, it is SUN's problem.  We use Display Manager,
not Foxview, but the problem is associated with Motif windows such as
the Alarm Manager and Foxview.  We tend to lose our keyboard
functionality first.  When this happens the keyboard functionality can
be restored by dismissing the alarm manager, (Motif Window).  The
keyboard will start to work again immediately.  This problem is one of
several reasons we don't want to move to Foxview on Solaris because it,
too, is a Motif application.  The Motif application appears to capture
the keyboard and sometimes the mouse and only dismissing the Motif
application or rebooting will restore it.  On the next lockup, try
logging into the P81 remotely, (if that is possible), and killing the
Foxview and Alarm Manager processes to see if your mouse and keyboard
come back to life.  I have had a CAR submitted on this problem since DAY
1 and it still isn't resolved.  It may be a SUN problem but it should be
addressed by Foxboro because they designed and sold the applications,
and the Sun license to run them, to the users, so it is their problem
too.
             We also use mouse/keyboard extension cables that are 25ft
in
length.
There may be some correlation related to signal latency that exacerbates
this problem that I'm certain is also associated with Motif applications
running on Solaris machines.  Are there any other users out there
experiencing mouse/keyboard lockups on Solaris machines that aren't
using mouse/keyboard extension cables?
Cheers,
Tom VandeWater

Troy L Brazell wrote:
> All of you list gurus ......
> Anyone experiencing problems with P81 USB mouse and keyboards?
> I have an AW that 5 times in the last 3 days has had to be rebooted
because
> the mouse and keyboard quit working.
> We are using the USB extenders provided by Foxboro.
> This has been an ongoing problem and I submitted a CAR, installed a
Custom
> Quick Fix Foxboro provided. I am a little disappointed with the
support
> Foxboro has given me on this problem. Usually they are really good at
> helping solve issues like this.
> Of course I am upset because we can no longer unplug and re-plug the
> keyboards ...... but Foxboro says that it is Sun thing.
> We are pretty sure that part of the problem is static discharge and
have
> taken a multitude of steps to resolve the issue. About the only thing
that
> we haven't done is install anti-static flooring and if I tell the
facility
> we will have to do that I will probably be looking for a job.
> Next week I am going to change out the standard CAT 5e extender with a
more
> expensive fiber extender in a effort to optically isolate. I don't
know
if
> this will help or not, but don't think that it will hurt.
> I have tested is fiber USB extender on a P81 at another facility and
it
> works just fine.
> Now ...... was wondering if any knows of a better technology for
extending
> the USB on a P81?
> Could a script be written to reconnect the mouse and keyboard
automatically
> in case they dropped off?
> Could wireless mice and keyboards be used?
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Troy L. Brazell
> Duke Energy Field Services
> Sr. Process Control Analyst
> ISA CCST
> Phone (405) 263 4130
> Cell    (405) 301 2994
> Okarche Plant
> Route 3 Box 95
> Okarche, OK. 73762
> *****************************
> MS Windoze the cure for Insomnia
> *****************************
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
> This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys
Process
> Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here
at
> your own risks. Read
http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
>
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>


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_______________________________________________________________________
This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process
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