Re: [foxboro] Recommendations for setting I/A DCS and Triconex TriStation time by GPS or similar manner?

Re: atomic clock time vs. satellite time... 

The GPS satellites carry their own atomic clocks, this is where the time
signal comes from. The difference between the time signals received from
three different satellites is how position is determined. GPS receivers
have their own quartz clock, corrected by a time signal from a fourth
satellite. The clocks on the satellites are so accurate that they need
to be adjusted for the time dilation effect of being in orbit.

cheers,
Con O'Brien

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Johnson, Alex P (IPS)
Sent: Wednesday, 8 April 2009 8:56 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Recommendations for setting I/A DCS and Triconex
TriStation time by GPS or similar manner?

The GPS synchronization ties the system to the GPS satellite's time; not
directly to the atomic clock.

If the time synchronization network is installed, the time in:
1) All control stations - and ZCP FCMs - is +/- 0.5ms relative to the
MTK
2) All workstations are 50ms (worst case) from the MTK. 

You can expect the workstations to be about 10ms from the MTK in
practice, but the NTP specification guarantees 50ms.

The CP's do not have NTP support so they are either on the old MTK
mechanism (+/- 1s relative to the MTK) or on the time synchronization
network.

The relevant PSSs are:

PSS 21S-1C2 B3 - Time Strobe Overview
PSS 21H-4C2 B3 - Time Strobe Equipment

A caveat - specific baseplates are required if you want to use the Time
Strobe network.


Regards,
 
Alex Johnson
Invensys Process Systems
10900 Equity Drive
Houston, TX 77041
+1 713 329 8472 (desk)
+1 713 329 1600 (operator)
+1 713 329 1944 (SSC Fax)
+1 713 329 1700 (Central Fax)
alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of tjvandew@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:37 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Recommendations for setting I/A DCS and Triconex
TriStation time by GPS or similar manner?

Alex,
     Excuse my ignorance, but does your GPS Solution with network sync
synchronize the foxboro MTK with an external atomic clock?  
    I used to be a big fan of Chicago's song "Does anybody really know
what time it is?  Does anybody really care?" but now everyone I work for
wants to know down to the milli-second so I guess I'd better care.
Tom VandeWater
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Johnson, Alex P (IPS)" <alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 18:11:21
To: <foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Recommendations for setting I/A DCS and Triconex
TriStation time by GPS or similar manner?


I don't know. I'll find out.

Regards,
 
Alex Johnson
Invensys Process Systems
10900 Equity Drive
Houston, TX 77041
+1 713 329 8472 (desk)
+1 713 329 1600 (operator)
+1 713 329 1944 (SSC Fax)
+1 713 329 1700 (Central Fax)
alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Neil Martin
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 4:55 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Recommendations for setting I/A DCS and Triconex
TriStation time by GPS or similar manner?

Alex,
With this solution, what happens concerning time changes from the 
TriStation whenever  the TriStation down loads changes to the Trident?
If 
the TriStation is not in time sync, it is apparently going to change the

time to something else that is not desirable.

Neil Martin
Huntsman Performance Chemicals
Conroe & Dayton , TX. 
Conroe ph) 936-760-6205
Dayton ph)  936-257-4212
pager) 936-522-0052



"Johnson, Alex P (IPS)" <alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent by: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
04/07/2009 04:41 PM
Please respond to
foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx


To
<foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc

Subject
Re: [foxboro] Recommendations for setting I/A DCS and Triconex
TriStation 
time by GPS or similar manner?






Neil,

Re: I/A Series to Triconex Time Synchronization

The I/A Series TSAA FDSI FBM can synchronize the Tricon or Trident to
within roughly 25ms of the CP's time. This is a standard part of the
driver.


Re: I/A Series and GPS
You can buy and install our GPS solution. There are two options:

1) With time synchronization network and
2) Without time synchronization network.

The former case keeps the CP270s (and FCMs for ZCP) within +/- 0.5 ms of
the Master Timekeeper (MTK).

The latter case keeps workstations within 50ms of the MTK via NTP. CP's
though use the older I/A Series time mechanism and are guaranteed to +/-
1s relative to the MTK.


The gist of this is if you use our GPS without the time synchronization
network, you can synchronize the CP/Triconex pair quite closely to each
other (25ms) and they will be no more than 1s from the MTK.

There are other options available, but these are off-the-shelf.


Does this help? 

Regards,
 
Alex Johnson
Invensys Process Systems
10900 Equity Drive
Houston, TX 77041
+1 713 329 8472 (desk)
+1 713 329 1600 (operator)
+1 713 329 1944 (SSC Fax)
+1 713 329 1700 (Central Fax)
alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Neil Martin
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 4:21 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [foxboro] Recommendations for setting I/A DCS and Triconex
TriStation time by GPS or similar manner?

We are looking for reliable, cost effective and easy to support solution

options that can be purchased to set V8.4.X (windows) I/A DCS time and 
Triconex TriStation time by GPS (or some other means of automatic
standard 
time setting).  Does anyone have suggestions/recommendations?
As a second question, does any one have a good solution to sync Triconex

TriStation time with I/A DCS time?

The most important need is to have the Triconex system set to the same 
time as the I/A DCS.  The first thought for doing this would be to have 
the DCS toggle a bit at a set time each day, and the Trident stations 
reset their time to the designated time every day.  However, one of the 
problems with this is that the TriStation apparently resets a Trident 
station to its time every time it down loads a change to the station. 
Thus, unless there is a way to turn off this feature, we are going to
need 
a way to keep one or more TriStations time synced with the DCS.



Neil Martin
Huntsman Performance Chemicals
Conroe & Dayton , TX. 
Conroe ph) 936-760-6205
Dayton ph)  936-257-4212
pager) 936-522-0052

 
 
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Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
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_______________________________________________________________________
This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process
Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
 
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** Confidentiality Notice:
This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended
solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This
e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you
have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this
message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any
purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person.

This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of the
Invensys Group, a group of companies owned by Invensys plc, which is a
company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at
Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number
166023).  For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys
Group, please go to
http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_i
d=77.  

You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail
inet.hqhelpdesk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx This e-mail and any attachments thereto
may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or
its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its
subsidiaries and affiliates).


 
 
_______________________________________________________________________
This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process
Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
 
foxboro mailing list:             http://www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
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** Confidentiality Notice:
This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended
solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This
e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you
have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this
message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any
purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person.

This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of the
Invensys Group, a group of companies owned by Invensys plc, which is a
company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at
Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF (Registered number
166023).  For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys
Group, please go to
http://www.invensys.com/legal/default.asp?top_nav_id=77&nav_id=80&prev_i
d=77.  

You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 7821 3848 or e-mail
inet.hqhelpdesk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx This e-mail and any attachments thereto
may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or
its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its
subsidiaries and affiliates).


 
 
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