Re: [foxboro] L02-1 Equipment questions. Was RCNI, NCNI, FO SWITC H

  • From: "Johnson, Alex (Foxboro)" <ajohnson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:04:42 -0500

Re: My only worry is if Foxboro uses some communications protocol that will
not work with standard Ethernet switches?


The nice thing about switches (as opposed to routers) is that switches do
not understand protocols. They simply look at the Ethernet packets and
switch them to the proper port.


For this reason, even though we use a non-standard (non-IP) protocol for our
native messaging, our messages can be handled by any standard Ethernet
switch.


That said, we sell and support only one brand (Entrasys) and several models
within that brand. We also have certified on model of Cisco switch (which
one I don't know at the moment). 


You may use any brand and model that you wish with our blessings, but we
cannot provide the level of support that you might desire and there is
always the risk of finger-pointing if your brand X switch has a problem with
our system that we do not see on the equipment we sell and support.


Re: Your configuration

Given that the NCNI has both fiber and copper ports, why use two switches?
You could connect the NCNI directly to the FO switch used by the RCNIs.


Hope this helps.

Alex Johnson
Invensys Systems, Inc.
10707 Haddington
Houston, TX 77043
713.722.2859 (office)
713.722.2700 (switchboard)
713.932.0222 (fax)
ajohnson@xxxxxxxxxxx
For the latest information on ArchestrA, go to
www.invensys.com/Archestra.html.

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Power Products [mailto:power_products@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent:   Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:40 PM
To:     foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:        Re: [foxboro] L02-1 Equipment questions. Was RCNI, NCNI, FO
SWITC H


Thankyou Tom VandeWater and Alex Johnson for your very good information.

To further clarify on my RCNI, NCNI and switches question

AW70 connects to RCNI (using Y cable)

RCNI connects to 100FX FO switch

FO switch connects to a switch which has a single 100FX FO uplink port, the 
other ports RJ45 10/100TX

10/100TX RJ45 switch connects to RJ-45 port on NCNI (according to document 
NCNI had RJ45 AND MT-RJ port)

NCNIs in 1x8 rack

CP60s in 1x8 rack

(the above switches in duplicate for redundant)

Will this work ok?

I think this better because no need for media converters, cost should be 
less and seems better solution. My only worry is if Foxboro uses some 
communications protocol that will not work with standard Ethernet switches?

OA

>From: "Johnson, Alex (Foxboro)" <ajohnson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: "'tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx '" 
><tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"'foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx '" 
><foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [foxboro] L02-1 Equipment questions. Was RCNI, NCNI, FO SWITC 
>H
>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:14:28 -0500
>
>
>The best switch to use with workstations is the fiber optic switch. The 
>NCNI
>does not have a switch preference because it has support for both Fiber and
>Copper connections.
>
>The fiber switch is more expensive, but by the time you buy and figure out
>how to package the fiber to 100Base-T converters, you will really wish that
>you had bought the fiber switch.
>
>I bought the fiber switch for my lab and it is very easy to setup. A copper
>switch would be much more difficult.
>
>AJ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: 3/25/2003 4:32 PM
>Subject: Re: [foxboro] L02-1 Equipment questions. Was RCNI, NCNI, FO SWITC 
>H
>
>
>A little clarification to Alex's excellent note.  Number 5 could read:
>
>5. A single RCNI attaches exactly one Workstation to two seperate
>Ethernet
>switches. The workstation connection - as with the DNBI and DNBT -
>requires
>an Ethernet port and a serial port which is carried from the
>workstation's
>dual ports to the RCNI's single RJ-45 port via a splitter cable, much
>like
>the one used by DNBT's.  This is where the installation gets a lot more
>complex.  The "A" and "B" network port connections from the RCNI are
>MTRJ
>type fiber connections which cannot be connected directly to RJ-45 type
>switches such as those recommended by Foxboro.  To solve that problem
>two
>MTRJ to RJ-45 media converters are required.  The RCNI's also contain
>the
>letterbug that identifies the workstation on the network.  To better
>visualize the interconnections you can check out  B0400DV Rev. A I/A
>Series
>A2(tm) High Performance System Network User's Guide located at:
>
>http://ips.csc.invensys.com/content/Documents/IASeries/b0400/B0400DV_A.p
>df
>
>       We currently have the equipment, and are installing the software
>this afternoon to bring an XP station on line.  I can say with certainty
>that the physical implementation is a lot more messy and complex than
>connecting a DNBT station to the old nodebus.  The RCNI converts the
>RJ-45
>connection from the workstation into a MTRJ fiber that then must be
>converted back to RJ-45 before going into the switch.  I imagine there
>are
>more expensive switches that have direct connect MTRJ ports built into
>them,
>and it might be worth it to buy one since the media converters are ~$550
>USD
>apiece.  The RCNI physical format is a bulky square box that can be
>mounted
>on a DIN rail but can only be powered from a single power source via a
>standard power cable.  The MTRJ to RJ-45 converters must also be powered
>in
>the same way, as I suppose are the Ethernet switches.  Thankfully the
>switches can bring in 24 connections from multiple RCNI's and/or NCNI's.
>Although I understand and welcome Foxboro's attempt to move from a 5mbs
>carrierband and a 10mbs nodebus, to a 1gbs backbone with 100mbs switched
>segments, they haven't made it an easy, or inexpensive, thing to do.
>       Right now we just want to put an XP workstation on an existing
>nodebus and it requires the following:
>Part # Description
>Qty    ~$USD           ~Total
>P0972PF        Redundant Control Network Interface (RCNI), DIN         1
>$2,346 $ 2,346
>P0972KW        Fiber Optic Multimode Cable, MT-RJ/MT-RJ, 15 m          2
>$
>115    $   230
>P0972MD        Media Translator 100FX MTRJ Fiber To 10/100TX RJ45      2
>$
>550    $ 1,100
>P0972PP        Nodebus Control Network Interface Module (NCNI)         2
>$1,900 $ 3,800
>P0972MH        24 Port, 10/100BaseTX Ethernet Switch                   2
>$2,500 $ 5,000
>
>$12,476
>
>   It seems like it could be done with the same DNBT that exists today,
>in
>the short term, but I realize that limits it to 10mbs but greatly
>simplifies
>cost and installation in an existing facility with IA enclosures
>installed.
>I also realize that the NCNI's and 24 port switches are a one time cost
>of
>$8,800 and would allow 22 more stations to connect to the bus.
>
>Tom VandeWater
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Johnson, Alex (Foxboro) [mailto:ajohnson@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 7:35 PM
>To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [foxboro] L02-1 Equipment questions. Was RCNI, NCNI, FO SWITCH
>
>
>
>Equipment configuration and DNBIs
>
>With regard to how to connect the equipment, this may help:
>
>1. The CP-60 plugs into the standard I/A Series 1x8 enclosure or
>equivalent.
>2. The two NCNIs plug into the same enclosure. Each NCNI attaches to
>exactly
>one port on one switch.
>3. The two Ethernet switches are not interlinked.
>4. Each switch has a port that connects to the same RCNI, i.e., one RCNI
>connect to each switch.
>5. A given RCNI attaches exactly one Workstation to an Ethernet switch.
>The
>workstation connection - as with the DNBI - requires an Ethernet port
>and a
>serial port.
>
>
>So, while it is true that you do not use DNBIs with the new workstations
>and
>Ethernet switches, you do need to use an RCNI which is very, very
>similar in
>function if not form factor.
>
>I'm afraid that I have not investigated the situation with a
>non-redundant
>Control Network in any detail.
>
>
>Ethernet Switches:
>We sell several switch models: some copper and some fiber. Our vendor is
>Entrasys (a merger of Wellfleet and Cabletron). We will (or have)
>certify an
>equivalent Cisco switch. We also allow the use of non-Invensys certified
>switches.
>
>So, you may use any standard High-Speed Ethernet switch, but please be
>aware
>that we cannot offer the same degree of support for other switches.
>
>
>Cost of Ethernet Switches:
>I really can't comment on cost, but fiber switches from name brand
>vendors
>are not cheap. On at least one occasion in the US, I saw the same switch
>as
>our Fiber Optic Switch offered for 1000 USD more than our US list price.
>So,
>on this topic at least, I believe we are competitive with the market (in
>the
>US anyway).
>
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Alex Johnson
>Invensys Systems, Inc.
>10707 Haddington
>Houston, TX 77043
>713.722.2859 (office)
>713.722.2700 (switchboard)
>713.932.0222 (fax)
>ajohnson@xxxxxxxxxxx
>For the latest information on ArchestrA, go to
>www.invensys.com/Archestra.html.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>From:  Power Products [mailto:power_products@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent:  Monday, March 24, 2003 6:06 PM
>To:    foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject:       [foxboro] RCNI, NCNI, FO SWITCH
>
>
>Anybody know anything with NCNIs and RCNIs?
>
>I want to do the following -  CP60 connect to nodebus with 2 x NCNI,
>AW70
>connected to nodebus with 1 x RCNI. My question is connecting the NCNI
>to
>RCNI, I will use fiber optic switches, do these switches have to be
>anything
>
>special? Do I have to get switches from Foxboro? They seem big price!
>
>does somebody know some switch that is good?
>
>Otto Aichinger
>Power Production
>Austria
>
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>Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
>your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
>
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>_______________________________________________________________________
>This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process
>Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
>your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
>
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Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
 
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your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
 
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