Re: [foxboro] Compound loading limits

Thanks for the replies...

Laboriously turning ECBs on in SMDH is something we do a lot of, so many =
thanks to Alex for the tip.

Working on this problem I found another trick with the ACM...you can =
change the state of block output parameters when a block is in Auto. =
This is especially noticeable when the block is running slower than BPC =
- you can toggle the .COUT parameter of a COUT block running in auto, =
for example, and it will stay toggled until the block next runs. Any =
downstream logic (or ECBs writing to the Tricon) will see this state =
change. We're actually using auto/manual states to interlock operator =
changes to COUT blocks, so this is an issue for us.

I've not researched this problem yet, so it may have already been =
addressed.

cheers,
Con

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] =
On Behalf Of Johnson, Alex P (IPS)
Sent: Saturday, 20 August 2005 5:14 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Compound loading limits

FGM 6.2.6 is the current release level. It has been QF'd and is being =
used in the field.

The 129 level 2 ECB limit is a systems management limit for most =
versions of the I/A Series. This limitation was added to the FGM =
document because it was becoming an issue for some installations - like =
this one.

In the 6.5.x I/A release, systems management was changed for profibus =
support to 250 ecbs so customers at that release should be able to use =
more ECBs with their FBM

In FGM, it is possible to support additional ECBs (more than 129). There =
is no checking in the station impose this limit. The issue with FGM is =
in station loading and the 2000 Block Equivalence. There is a cost in =
scanning these ECBs twice a second and the blocks are large.

For those people who do not want to sit in SMDH and turn on all of these =
ECBs; there is a program (KIDSGO) documented in B0193VK (pg 125) which =
implements this one-time set which will turn on all of the ecb's.=20

As discussed by others omset can be used to turn on all of the ecb's is =
the FGM station.


Regards,
=20
Alex Johnson
Invensys Systems, Inc.
10707 Haddington
Houston, TX 77063
+1 713 722 2859 (voice)
+1 713 932 0222 (fax)
+1 713 722 2700 (switchboard)
alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I hope to see you at the Invensys Process System User Group meeting =
October
3-6 in Houston, TX -
www.invensys.com/usergroup2005

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] =
On Behalf Of Airhart, Chad M.
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:43 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Compound loading limits

When we installed our ACM's three years ago we ran into the block limit =
while trying to load and test our system in Foxboro's labs in Houston.
We were trying to bring over individual discretes as CIN's each =
representing and alarm for an interlock.  What we ended up doing is =
setting the system up to be like our old MODBUS interface.  We took a =
Triconex library function that packs sixteen discretes and modified it =
to fit Foxboro's LSB and MSB form and used MCIN's on the Foxboro side.
This alleviated our block limit problem.

Chad M. Airhart
Senior Engineer - Lyondell Chemical Co.
Instrument, Electrical and Control Systems Engineering Victoria Plant =
Ph. (361)572-2568 Fx. (361)572-2541 Cell. (361)935-3230

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of tom.vandewater@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 2:08 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Compound loading limits

Con,
        Funny you should mention the limitations of a FoxGuard ACM.
Last week we ran into some problems of our own with them.  For those of =
you that don't know, the Foxguard ACM allows a Triconex TRICON, (a =
Triple Modular Redundant system commonly used for high reliability =
Safety Shutdown protection), to communicate on the Fox IA nodebus as a =
control station.  The ACM runs a control image very similar to a CP but =
the ACM is physically installed in a TRICON card cage and talks to the =
nodebus through a DNBI, or to a CP via a new 200 series FDSI FBM.  The =
ACM boot host is an AW on the Foxboro nodebus and for all practical =
purposes you make configuration changes to the interface just like you =
would on an IA CP.
        Our first problem arose when one of the guys on our team made a change =
to the ACM configuration using the ICC.  He was able to exit the ICC =
without incident and a "Checkpoint Success" message was sent to SysMon.  =
When he tried to re-enter the ICC for the ACM later that day he received =
the following message: "E33 Database Operation in Progress"
        We searched the CSC website looking for information and found that =
there was a CAR and a QF issued to fix this problem.  At the same time =
we found other CAR's and QF's for several other problems.
        Foxboro has changed the ACM software image several times recently =
trying to fix all of these problems and if you aren't careful you might =
miss what is the latest and greatest image available.  (today it is =
4.2.6), but that could change by the time you look.  They did send out a =
customer advisory on the new Foxguard image last week and that is better =
than they did in the past.  Also, to their credit, they have gotten =
better on the website and now only include the latest QF for an image.  =
It used to be that you could see all of them and you had to decide which =
one was the most current.  When you saw all of them together, it was =
pretty unsettling because you actually knew how many times they were =
making changes to the image.
        We installed the new image to fix our original problem:=3D3D20
"E33 Database Operation in Progress"
And then ran into another limitation that was pre-existing but we hadn't =
hit it before.  A Foxguard ACM can only support 129 ECB blocks!  That =
may sound like a lot but you have to use a new ECB for every Tricon Card =
installed as well as one ECB for every 16 software values you want to =
pass from the TRICON to IA or vise-versa.  We were able to configure =
more than 129 ECB's in the ICC and could even see them in the select =
screen but only 129 will display in System Management and as a result =
you can never turn the ECB's online, and such can never use them.  A =
call to Foxboro brought the response, Sorry but you can only have 129 =
ECB's in the ACM.  Anyone know how to turn on ECB's via command line =
instead of via SysMon.  Our Foxguard is barely loaded as far as the =
Station block shows but we can't pass any more values because we can't =
turn on the ECB's.  Sounds like a serious design flaw to me but Foxboro =
doesn't agree, or at least the CSC rep we talked to.

Tom VandeWater
Control Systems Developer/Analyst
Dow Corning Corporation
Carrollton, KY   USA



-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Perez, Claudio
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:25 PM
To: 'foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Compound loading limits

I don't know about compound limits in a Foxguard. What we do know is =3D =
=3D3D3D that Foxguard is a bit unstable, mainly when cpu loading is near =
or below 20 =3D3D3D %.

Regards
Claudio

-----Mensaje original-----
De: O'Brien, Con [mailto:con.obrien@xxxxxx] Enviado el: Lunes, 15 de =
Agosto de 2005 00:15
Para: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [foxboro] Compound loading limits


Hi all,

Does anybody know if there's a limit on the number of compounds =
=3D3D3D3D configurable in a control station?=3D3D3D3D20

More specifically, I'm having some problems with an ACM (FoxGuard) =3D =
=3D3D3D3D module, and I'm wondering if it's related to the number of =
compounds =3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D I've configured (> 60).=3D3D3D3D20

It's easy enough to find block and block-equivalent limits for control =
=3D =3D3D =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D stations, but I've never seen a number for a =
limit on compounds.

cheers,
Con
=3D3D3D20
=3D3D3D20
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