[etni] Re: Session with Judy Steiner in Jerusalem
- From: "Elen Gefen" <elen_g@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "etni" <etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:17:43 +0200
**** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
Dear Etniers
Rivka L wrote the following about Judy Steiner's response to the low
achievements of native speakers.
"Now that I have time to breathe, I'll give you Judy's answer. According to
her, the reading comprehension part of the Bagrut is meant to test reading
comprehension rather than English. Just as in the United States or England,
not all native speakers pass reading comprehension tests, even though they
are totally fluent in English, so too here, our native speaker students may
know the language yet fail the test because they don't have the strategies
necessary to cope with reading comprehension tests. The same, of course,
happens with Israelis taking reading comprehension exams - many of them fail
despite being native Hebrew speakers."
While we all know from the reality, it was the first time I had ever seen
it said by the ministry in black and white. In other words, anyone who
still believes we're preparing students for a test of English proficiency,
has it all wrong.
I'm rather overwhelmed by the task at hand which is a consequence of this
priority.
We're supposed to take non-native English speakers , teach them the English
language, teach them how to read in English (because many didn't learn that
in elementary), teach them reading comprehension skills and stragegies (that
many haven't yet learnaed in Hebrew) and expect them hocus pocus to be able
to deal with all the discreet and inferential questions the bagrut throws at
them, and to be able to express themselves in perfect written English as
well. Why can't reading comprehension be the first priority goal for the
students in HEBREW, and let us worry first and foremost about ENGLISH
LANGUAGE PROFICIENCY???
Ellen Gefen
Shaar Hanegev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rivka Lewenstein" <rlewen@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Elen Gefen" <elen_g@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <etni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:58 PM
Subject: [etni] Re: Session with Judy Steiner in Jerusalem
> **** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
>
> After I posted my first message about the session with Judy Steiner in
Jerusalem about a week and a half ago, I began receiving e-mails asking what
Judy had to say about English speakers and their rather unspectacular
performace on some of the modules. I apologize for not posting a response
immediately, but Erev Pesach was rather chaotic by us, and I didn't have a
minute to spare, not even for ETNI!
>
> Now that I have time to breathe, I'll give you Judy's answer. According to
her, the reading comprehension part of the Bagrut is meant to test reading
comprehension rather than English. Just as in the United States or England,
not all native speakers pass reading comprehension tests, even though they
are totally fluent in English, so too here, our native speaker students may
know the language yet fail the test because they don't have the strategies
necessary to cope with reading comprehension tests. The same, of course,
happens with Israelis taking reading comprehension exams - many of them fail
despite being native Hebrew speakers. Judy's solution was to make sure to
thoroughly teach our students reading strategies which will allow them to
deal with any and all texts and questions thrown at them.
>
> Has that convinced you? In mu opinion, this answer is just not good
enough, and here's why: I agree that knowing a language doesn't
automatically make you a good reader, and as a result, I wouldn't expect all
native speakers to pass the Bagrut exam with high grades. However, we have
to remember that this is not an exam designed for native speakers, which
means that the reading comprehension shouldn't be on the same level of
difficulty as an American SAT test, for example. We can't expect non-native
speakers to have the same degree of comprehension as native speakers, so an
exam written primarily for Israelis should be relatively easy for native
speakers who were taught basic reading comprehension skills. And knowing the
caliber of the teachers who teach native speakers, I have no doubt that 99%
of native speaker students were indeed taught those skills plus much more.
>
> Second, while once again agreeing that in all English-speaking countries,
a certain percentage of the population fails reading comprehensiont tests,
that percentage is high when testing all segments of the population, from
kids in the slums to kids in top private schools, and a full range of IQs.
However, my feeling is (and correct me if I'm wrong) that in Israel, only
the best and the brightest are allowed entrance into the English speakers
groups. Other native speakers who don't cut the grade usually end up in the
regular hakbatzot. Therefore, the percentage of students learning in native
speaker groups who fail the Bagrut should be extremely low.
>
> In addition, Judy's answer in no way explains the discrepancies in grades
between one moed and the next, as have been posted here on ETNI. (That, BTW,
is a general problem, not connected only to English speakers, but I won't
get into that here.)
>
> I'd love to hear what the rest of you feel about this issue.
>
> Have a happy and kosher Pesach,
>
> Rivka
>
>
>
>
>
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