[esnr] Re: SAN

  • From: "Lesley Parkinson" <lesleyparkinsoncp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: esnr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:38:55 +0100

Dear Catherine,
You raise a very important issue that certainly merits debate.
Were the question posed in another field it would be easier to give clear answers, e.g. Should untrained people be allowed to perfofm surgery?
Most clear -thinking people would say "No", for many reasons including protection of the public.
Should people with no training in the psychiatric or mental health field be able to provide Neurofeedback to people with Psychotic illness?
I would say "Definitely not" for many reasons including boundaries of competence, and lack of understanding of pschotic processes.
I think one of the reasons Neurofeedback has such a poor reputation in some parts of the USA is due to people applying protocols without full assessment and with no concepyt of clinical complexity.
If we are considering that it is not necessary to have a clinical training to work with clinical populations on clinically- related issues I think we need to proceed very carefully as we would be challenging EU thinking on professional standards and behaviour.
Societies are becoming ever more litiginous and I think if SAN wishes to be taken seriously it needs to consider the issue you have raised carefully.
It is also possible to be naive and not see the relevance of clinical training when one has not undertaken a clinical training. Conversely clinical training does not prepare one to take on the world either.
Best Wishes

From: "Catherine Ruckert" <cjruckert@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: esnr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: esnr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [esnr] Re: SAN
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 05:44:10 +0000

Is the intention really to encourage people to enter at the grassroots level or is it to prevent the grassroot level people from ever reaching the clinical level? Just a query!!

I was at the meeting in Winterthur and remember a very rushed agenda, at the end of a very long and demanding day. There was a strong feeling amongst many participants that decisions had been made in advance of the meeting and that we were being bulldozed. There was little transparency in the proceedings. I whole heartedly support this new initiative, but I like many others am concerned.

With regards to Cornelia's post, while it certainly isn't necessary to have medical training to work with learning disabled children, it may well be necessary to have a degree in education!!!

Incidentally, I think Norway is a wonderful place to have future meetings!!

Catherine Ruckert MA,

From: "Gruzelier, John H" <j.gruzelier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: esnr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: <esnr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [esnr] Re: SAN
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:16:11 +0100

Dear Cornelia,

Thankyou for your support.

The training programme will have three streams ;- clinical, educational and optimal performance. The intention will be to encourage people without clinical and medical training to enter the educational and optimal performance programmes.

My own research programme also includes hypnosis and energy medicine, and therefore I am very aware of the value (and limitations) of these procedures, and the added advantages of eclectic approaches to optimise performance and health.

With best wishes,


-----Original Message-----
From: esnr-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:esnr-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Cornelia Dollfus
Sent: 16 June 2004 20:50
To: ESNR@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [esnr] SAN

Dear John, Dear Members of E-iSNR

Thank you John and other board members for your work and your ideas.
I think it would be good to have a seperate association in Europe. It will
be good to stand on our own feet, doing research, and have european
standards especially for certification.

Here in switzerland we have since years the situation that we have a
therapeutic field (MD`s and Psychotherapists) and a great field of in
complementary and alternative medicine working people. Some of these methods
are even payed by assurances.

So we would be very happy with a solution that includes on one hand the
scientific and therapeutic people and on the other hand these people working
more on educational side. To work with learning disabilities, with
inattentive childs a.s.o.
does not assume universitiy studies of psychology or medicine.

I think it would be better to integrate such people of the nonmedical field
who are doing very good work for many clients and to give them the
opportunity to learn from the scientists. In this way we can develop a
community of many professional working people for a more therapeutic and /or
scientific and for a more basically applied educational and /or prophylactic
field of performance - training.

best regards

Cornelia Dollfus MD

Cornelia Dollfus
Dr. med., Ärztin für Psychotherapie und Neurofeedback
Feldeggstr. 12
8008 Zürich

Co-Leiterin Neurofeedback-Institut Schweiz

Mitglied u.a. NAS, i-SNR, AAPB,

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