Teri, I have to smile when I saw your message because it reminded me of a discussion about contents pages when Committee V, the UEBC Formats Committee, was doing its work. I learned very quickly that in other parts of the world, it is common to see both print and braille pages in the table of contents and when US folks suggested that including the braille pages was redundant, it raised a firestorm and the issue was labeled a "bombshell." I suppose it's simply what you're used to. Braille Formats says "Only print page numbers that are listed in the print table of contents must be given in the braille table of contents." However, some NLS magazines show both print and braille pages numbers in the table of contents: The print page colum come first followed by the braille pages. The numbers are left-adjusted in each column. ,,3t5ts ;iii ,title ,pr9t ,brl ,page ,page ,,"p ,,"o ,! ,hawaiians1 0,paul ,!r\x #b #cj ,a c5tury af ,hawaiians lo/ _! k+dom & m* ( _! culture1 a new g5],n is 4cov]+ xs roots--& "s ( !m want _! isl&s back4 ;,x-ray ,vi.n1 0,mi*ael ,klesius """""""""""""""" #db #ge Warren In a message dated 3/18/2005 12:41:48 AM Central Standard Time, teri@xxxxxxxxxx writes: This has got me thinking so am sending a separate message with new subject to avoid confusion. Is there ever a situation where both braille and print page numbers would be included in a contents page, and if so, how is this done in dbt? How is it shown in braille? Which comes first, print or braille? I suspect one set of numbers would need to be inserted manually. Do the braille code rules say anything about this?