[duxhelp] Re: [folds] code

  • From: "George Bell" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:15:00 +0100

Mike,

Given that the feature only appeared in 10.5, I don't
believe it would be a major issue, especially if it was in
fact "enhanced".

George. 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike
Gorse
Sent: 28 March 2006 19:00
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code

We could have [folds] insert two fold lines, placing the
smaller section at the top, if it is given with no
parameters, otherwise use the parameters as line numbers if
there are parameters.

As Peter suggests, this would break backward compatibility
and require the code to be changed if the page length is
changed where parameters are used.

-Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Figueiredo" <warrenfigueiredo@xxxxxxx>
To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code


> George
> You'd probably need a generic "easy" code like
> [bifold] or [trifold]
> and let the [folds] command be for those who wish to
manipulate codes
> further.
> Just a thought (and maybe not a good one).
> Warren
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:31 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
>
> Peter, (and all)
>
> With so many different views on this, not to mention sizes
of paper, would
> it not make sense to allow the user to simply state two
lines to be blank,
> or perhaps with a fold line of middle c's?
>
> For example, [folds:7:14~3] to produce a fold on lines 7 &
> 14 of middle c's.
>
> George.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter
Sullivan
> Sent: 28 March 2006 16:46
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
>
> Michael,
>
> We are looking to avoid alogrithms that produce three
different sizes of
> section.  We're aiming instead for an alogrithm that,
regardless of the
> number of folds, will produce sections of at most two
different sizes.
>
> There seems to be some disagreement about how to
distribute the larger and
> smaller sections, when the sections aren't all of the same
size.
>
> Mike is looking for a way to make this something that the
end user can 
> set.
> So far, we have two preferences:
>
> 1. Put the larger section(s) first -- the smaller
section(s) following.
> 2. Put the smaller section(s) first -- the larger
section(s) following.
>
> So far, nobody has requested the larger or smaller
> section(s) be placed in the middle.  This is good -- the
fewer variations
> there are in preference, the more easily we can understand
and adapt to
> them.
>
> However, let me point out a wrinkle that nobody else has
pointed out so 
> far.
>
> If you have an even number of sections greater than two --
perhaps because
> you've requested three fold lines (thus four
> sections) -- I posit that you would want, if possible, to
have the fold
> lines arranged symmetrically on the page.
> This would make it possible to fold once down the middle,
and once again 
> at
> the now-coincident remaining fold lines.
>
> We wouldn't get this by putting the larger fold section(s)
consistently at
> the top or at the bottom.  A recursive algorithm is
necessary to manage 
> such
> a case well.
>
> All of which is to beg your patience -- and that of others
> -- as we try to tease out a specification on this one.
> We've put our thinking caps on too.
>
> - Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael
Surato
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:15 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
>
> Correct, I would want the largest section to be at the top
of the page.
> Ideally, I would want the smallest section to be at the
bottom of the 
> page.
> This would produce a page that has the first line or so
outside of the
> folded section, and still have a neat fold.
>
> If the algorithm produces 3 different size sections, I
would want the
> largest at the top, and the smallest at the bottom.
> If there are 2 equal size sections, and 1 larger section,
I would want the
> larger section at the top. If there are 2 equal size
sections, and 1 
> smaller
> section, I would want the smaller section at the bottom.
>
> +-------------------------------------------+
> |            Michael Surato                 |
> |      Resource Center for Persons          |
> |           with Disabilities               |
> |      Michigan State University            |
> |            120 Bessey Hall                |
> |        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
> | Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
> +-------------------------------------------+
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter
> Sullivan
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:07 AM
>> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> In other words, you want the top section always to be at
> least as
>> large as any other section, right?
>>
>> If there are three sections, and two of them will be the
> same size,
>> shall the smallest be in the middle or on the bottom?
>>
>> - Peter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Michael
> Surato
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:01 AM
>> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
>>
>> The guiding principal I would use would be to have the
> "remainder"
>> from the algorithm be at the top of the paper.
>> Assuming that the equation stays the same, I would count
> lines
>> starting from the bottom of the page. This would place
the
> fold at
>> line 17 (25-8) & 9 (17-8).
>>
>> Again this is my opinion.
>>
>> +-------------------------------------------+
>> |            Michael Surato                 |
>> |      Resource Center for Persons          |
>> |           with Disabilities               |
>> |      Michigan State University            |
>> |            120 Bessey Hall                |
>> |        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
>> | Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
>> +-------------------------------------------+
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Melissa Hirshson
>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:18 AM
>> > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
>> >
>> > Hi Peter,
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what you mean. When I tried to fold the
> paper, it was
>> > obvious that line 17, not 16, was the correct place to
> put
>> the folding
>> > line. We would not be able to use the feature if it
were
>> only set to
>> > line 16.
>> >
>> > Lissa
>> >
>> > Peter Sullivan wrote:
>> > > Lissa,
>> > >
>> > > The question remains whether there is any guiding
> principle
>> > to this.
>> > > Or is it "just because"?
>> > >
>> > > - Peter
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> Melissa Hirshson
>> > > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:55 PM
>> > > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > Subject: [duxhelp] [folds] code
>> > >
>> > > Hi Mike,
>> > >
>> > > When we fold a sheet of braille on 8-1/2 by 11 paper
> into
>> > thirds, the
>> > > lines affected are 8 and 17.
>> > >
>> > > Lissa
>> > >
>> > > Mike Gorse wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>Hi Lissa, Christian, and anyone else interested:
>> > >>
>> > >>Currently, where there is not a second parameter
> passed to
>> > a [folds]
>> > >>code, folds are inserted at fixed intervals of N
> lines, where N =
>> > >>(num_lines + 1) / num_folds.  For instance, on a
> 25-line
>> page, (25 +
>> > >>1) / 3 (rounded down) = 8, so every 8th line is a
> fold.
>> > This causes
>> > >>folds on lines 8 and 16 of a 25-line page, so there
> are two
>> > groups of
>> > >>7 lines and one group of 9 lines. It looks as though
I
> need
>> > to change
>> > >>the algorithm, but I need to know how people want it
> to work in
>> > >>general before I change anything.
>> > >>
>> > >>There will not always be an equal number of lines
>> available between
>> > >>folds. On a 25-line page, for instance, the best that
> can be done
>> > >>would be to have one group of 7 lines and two groups
> of 8
>> > lines.  In
>> > >>these situations, should the first group always have
> the
>> > fewest lines?
>> > >>
>> > >>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>> > >>
>> > >>Thanks,
>> > >>-Mike
>> > >>
>> > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Hirshson"
>> > <lissa@xxxxxxx>
>> > >>To: <mike@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> > >>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:28 PM
>> > >>Subject: DBT Beta: Two things
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>>Hi all,
>> > >>>
>> > >>>First of all, I absolutely love the potential of the
> $fold
>> > command!
>> > >>>We do lots and lots of letters here that need to be
>> > folded, and this
>> > >>>will help us a lot. (Is this new to 10;6? I didn't
> beta
>> test 10;5
>> > >>>very
>> > >>>thoroughly.) However, the dimensions are wrong, the
> second fold
>> > >>>should be on line 17, not 16. (I just tested it.)
The
>> > first fold is
>> > >>>correct on line 8.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Secondly, I see that your definition of narrow paper
>> > (i.e., 8-1/2 by
>> > >>>11 inch) is 32 cells. Here we do 30 cells, not 32,
>> > because, and I've
>> > >>>concurred with a blind colleague, it is
uncomfortable
> to
>> > read braille
>> > >>>when your finger is hitting the edge of the paper
all
>> the time. It
>> > >>>also doesn't allow for an adequate binding margin
for
> our
>> > equipment,
>> > >>>either. Can we change the definition of narrow
paper,
> or
>> > define our
>> > >>>own, so that we don't need to be typing in 30 all
the
>> time? Thanks!
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Lissa
>> > >>>NBP
>> > >>>
>> > >>
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