[duxhelp] Re: [folds] code

Peter, (and all)

With so many different views on this, not to mention sizes
of paper, would it not make sense to allow the user to
simply state two lines to be blank, or perhaps with a fold
line of middle c's?

For example, [folds:7:14~3] to produce a fold on lines 7 &
14 of middle c's.

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter
Sullivan
Sent: 28 March 2006 16:46
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code

Michael,

We are looking to avoid alogrithms that produce three
different sizes of section.  We're aiming instead for an
alogrithm that, regardless of the number of folds, will
produce sections of at most two different sizes.

There seems to be some disagreement about how to distribute
the larger and smaller sections, when the sections aren't
all of the same size.

Mike is looking for a way to make this something that the
end user can set.
So far, we have two preferences:

1. Put the larger section(s) first -- the smaller section(s)
following.
2. Put the smaller section(s) first -- the larger section(s)
following.

So far, nobody has requested the larger or smaller
section(s) be placed in the middle.  This is good -- the
fewer variations there are in preference, the more easily we
can understand and adapt to them.

However, let me point out a wrinkle that nobody else has
pointed out so far.

If you have an even number of sections greater than two --
perhaps because you've requested three fold lines (thus four
sections) -- I posit that you would want, if possible, to
have the fold lines arranged symmetrically on the page.
This would make it possible to fold once down the middle,
and once again at the now-coincident remaining fold lines.

We wouldn't get this by putting the larger fold section(s)
consistently at the top or at the bottom.  A recursive
algorithm is necessary to manage such a case well.

All of which is to beg your patience -- and that of others
-- as we try to tease out a specification on this one.
We've put our thinking caps on too.

- Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael
Surato
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:15 AM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code

Correct, I would want the largest section to be at the top
of the page.
Ideally, I would want the smallest section to be at the
bottom of the page.
This would produce a page that has the first line or so
outside of the folded section, and still have a neat fold.

If the algorithm produces 3 different size sections, I would
want the largest at the top, and the smallest at the bottom.
If there are 2 equal size sections, and 1 larger section, I
would want the larger section at the top. If there are 2
equal size sections, and 1 smaller section, I would want the
smaller section at the bottom.

+-------------------------------------------+
|            Michael Surato                 |
|      Resource Center for Persons          |
|           with Disabilities               |
|      Michigan State University            |
|            120 Bessey Hall                |
|        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
+-------------------------------------------+ 
   

> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter
Sullivan
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:07 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
> 
> Michael,
> 
> In other words, you want the top section always to be at
least as 
> large as any other section, right?
> 
> If there are three sections, and two of them will be the
same size, 
> shall the smallest be in the middle or on the bottom?
> 
> - Peter
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael
Surato
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:01 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
> 
> The guiding principal I would use would be to have the
"remainder" 
> from the algorithm be at the top of the paper.
> Assuming that the equation stays the same, I would count
lines 
> starting from the bottom of the page. This would place the
fold at 
> line 17 (25-8) & 9 (17-8).
> 
> Again this is my opinion. 
> 
> +-------------------------------------------+
> |            Michael Surato                 |
> |      Resource Center for Persons          |
> |           with Disabilities               |
> |      Michigan State University            |
> |            120 Bessey Hall                |
> |        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
> | Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
> +-------------------------------------------+ 
>    
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Melissa Hirshson
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:18 AM
> > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [duxhelp] Re: [folds] code
> > 
> > Hi Peter,
> > 
> > I'm not sure what you mean. When I tried to fold the
paper, it was 
> > obvious that line 17, not 16, was the correct place to
put
> the folding
> > line. We would not be able to use the feature if it were
> only set to
> > line 16.
> > 
> > Lissa
> > 
> > Peter Sullivan wrote:
> > > Lissa,
> > > 
> > > The question remains whether there is any guiding
principle
> > to this.  
> > > Or is it "just because"?
> > > 
> > > - Peter
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Melissa Hirshson
> > > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:55 PM
> > > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [duxhelp] [folds] code
> > > 
> > > Hi Mike,
> > > 
> > > When we fold a sheet of braille on 8-1/2 by 11 paper
into
> > thirds, the
> > > lines affected are 8 and 17.
> > > 
> > > Lissa
> > > 
> > > Mike Gorse wrote:
> > > 
> > >>Hi Lissa, Christian, and anyone else interested:
> > >>
> > >>Currently, where there is not a second parameter
passed to
> > a [folds]
> > >>code, folds are inserted at fixed intervals of N
lines, where N = 
> > >>(num_lines + 1) / num_folds.  For instance, on a
25-line
> page, (25 +
> > >>1) / 3 (rounded down) = 8, so every 8th line is a
fold.  
> > This causes
> > >>folds on lines 8 and 16 of a 25-line page, so there
are two
> > groups of
> > >>7 lines and one group of 9 lines. It looks as though I
need
> > to change
> > >>the algorithm, but I need to know how people want it
to work in 
> > >>general before I change anything.
> > >>
> > >>There will not always be an equal number of lines
> available between
> > >>folds. On a 25-line page, for instance, the best that
can be done 
> > >>would be to have one group of 7 lines and two groups
of 8
> > lines.  In
> > >>these situations, should the first group always have
the
> > fewest lines?
> > >>
> > >>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>Thanks,
> > >>-Mike
> > >>
> > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Hirshson" 
> > <lissa@xxxxxxx>
> > >>To: <mike@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:28 PM
> > >>Subject: DBT Beta: Two things
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>>First of all, I absolutely love the potential of the
$fold
> > command! 
> > >>>We do lots and lots of letters here that need to be
> > folded, and this
> > >>>will help us a lot. (Is this new to 10;6? I didn't
beta
> test 10;5
> > >>>very
> > >>>thoroughly.) However, the dimensions are wrong, the
second fold 
> > >>>should be on line 17, not 16. (I just tested it.) The
> > first fold is
> > >>>correct on line 8.
> > >>>
> > >>>Secondly, I see that your definition of narrow paper
> > (i.e., 8-1/2 by
> > >>>11 inch) is 32 cells. Here we do 30 cells, not 32,
> > because, and I've
> > >>>concurred with a blind colleague, it is uncomfortable
to
> > read braille
> > >>>when your finger is hitting the edge of the paper all
> the time. It
> > >>>also doesn't allow for an adequate binding margin for
our
> > equipment,
> > >>>either. Can we change the definition of narrow paper,
or
> > define our
> > >>>own, so that we don't need to be typing in 30 all the
> time? Thanks!
> > >>>
> > >>>Lissa
> > >>>NBP
> > >>>
> > >>
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