[duxhelp] Re: UK Rules & Numbers

  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 21:35:02 +0100

Peter,

It's perhaps a subject that is delving into the "political
arena" somewhat, but it's also perhaps time once again to
make people aware of how much additional work is involved.

Really, at the end of the day, it's the user who has to ask
his or her Braille Authority, "Why do we need these
complications?"

We also have to very seriously consider the growing number
of organisations who are being requested braille, who simply
do not have the funds to employ full time braille experts.

Braille readers/users want braille, so we need to phrase our
questions to the layman. E.G. "Is this a telephone number?"

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter
Sullivan
Sent: 31 May 2006 21:11
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: UK Rules & Numbers

George,

Such a module does provide the obvious answer.  In fact, we
had such a thing a long while ago, for use principally with
French braille.

The truth is that its simply not possible to offer a program
that always gets everything right automatically.  We tend to
err on the side of doing little that is automated, allowing
users to control the braille quite directly where possible,
and leaving them a lot of "do" for the translator but
relatively little to "undo".

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:08 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: UK Rules & Numbers

Peter,

I fear that one of these days, we are just going to have to
face the fact that users will have to be faced with a parser
module, rather like a spelling and grammar checker.  They
are going to hate it!

"This looks a series of telephone numbers.  Do you want to
strip them out according to BANA's or BAUK's rule bla bla?"

"This looks like an e-mail address. Do you wish it to be in
Grade 1, or Computer Braille?  Oh, and BAUK rules say your
choice must apply to the whole document."

"Oops, in your previous answer, you asked for Grade 1, but
some of your e-mail and web addresses include invalid
characters for Grade 1 braille such as underscores.  Shall
we start again?"

"Oh yes, and while we are at it, your [sk30] code appears to
be invalid for the length of paper you say you have".

And these committees say that computers should bend to
braille rules?

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter
Sullivan
Sent: 31 May 2006 18:32
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: UK Rules & Numbers

George,

I put the question about UK rules for spaces "within"
numbers to Joe, and received this response from him:

--------------
I've put consideration of this on my TBD list for the
British tables. As you might guess, it's dangerous to throw
out spaces using an automatic process that doesn't really
understand the semantics of the text. We might yet need
another kind of "space" for these things ... 
--------------

So I don't know whether we'll see this fixed for DBT 10.6.
Certainly we're more likely to get things right with regard
to rule 6.1.6 than with rule 6.1.7.  The latter seems to be
applicable only under circumstances that may be difficult to
detect reliably.

- Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of George
Bell
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:52 AM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] UK Rules & Numbers

Peter,
 
"British Braille" Rule 6 - Numbers.
 
Rules 6.1.6 basically says that while telephone numbers may
be spaced in print, the space should be removed in braille
and thus for example 01604
792777 is written "#jafjd#gibggg".
 
This is further complicated by Rule 6.1.7 where the space
should also removed in "groups" of letters and numbers, for
example "HAM 1597".
 
It appears that 10.5 SR1 resolved the first above, but it
broke in SR2 and is the same in Beta 8.
 
George


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