I do not want to stray off topic, but unless the braille reading world can confine itself to no more than two tables, I anticipate a lot of trouble. I realize this is neither Duxbury's function nor call, and I persist in my belief that braille has become an eight-dot system, with a variable set of six dot encodings. I also realize that this is not pertinent to the next release, so I hope you will all forgive me. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Request for input on DBT installation > Lissa, > > I also prefer to read braille in "ASCII" form. But the trouble is that > people worldwide have a different defintion of what that means. Try this: > with a braille document opened in DBT, select "Print Font" from the View > menu. Now, using the Global, Internationalization menu, change the braille > encoding (the lower setting). Ignore the warning message (which applies > only if you're viewing with braille or simbraille fonts) and behold the > results. > > - peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Melissa Hirshson > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:55 AM > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Request for input on DBT installation > > This is very interesting. As a transcriber, I do not know how else braille > could be represented other than ascii characters, since that is how all word > processing is done. Even the Tiger embosser, which is trying to marry > graphics and braille, uses ascii when it comes to braille. When I need to > quickly dash off a simbraille printout for a signage customer, I just type > in the ascii characters directly into a blank Word file. Transcribing is, in > a sense, very, VERY glorified word processing--how else would we do it > without ascii? > > You are right, of course, in that in an ideal world we could emboss braille > or New York Point or graphics all together without any difficulties. We just > have to make sure that the ability to function otherwise is not compromised. > > We at National Braille Press look at ascii characters all day, every day. > That is mostly because we need to make corrections to files without > retranslating them. I'm sure this is the case for the other major braille > printing houses. I don't know how much braille the major houses produce > versus the smaller organizations, but even if we are a "tiny minority" of > people, we can't work any other way. > > And the beat goes on. :) > > Lissa > NBP > > David Holladay wrote: > > >This is a great idea. But it is a bit impractical. The problem is that > >virtually all of our users do not understand the concept of an encoding > >between ASCII and braille characters. > > > >In one sense, it is an obsolete concept. A truely modern embosser would > >allow an arbitrary use of the field of dots. > >If you want graphics, fine. If you want New York Point (2 dots high, 2, > >3, or 4 wide) fine. If you wanted to experiment with a 4 by 4 block > >that allowed perfec representation of a 16 bit Uni-code, fine. To do > >this would require the driving software to express raw dot patterns. > > > >But back to the task at hand. Braille transcribers who only look at dot > >patterns do not ever look at ASCII representations of braille. Many > >users do not closely examine the braille, they just output and give it > >to blind people for comment. > > > >So only a small minority want or need an ASCII representation. Of > >those, only a tiny number would have a problem if it was not exactly > >set the way they want it right out of the box, as long as we follow a > >protocol as I have suggested. > > > >Believe me, the DBT team has discussed asking users this question many > >times. Each time we conclude we will lose people if we try to explain it. > > > >-- David Holladay (with a tip of the hat to Peter, who dearly wishes > >all embossers could be addressed as strictly a field of dots) > > > >--------------------------- > > > > > > > > > >At 08:18 AM 7/22/2004 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >>Hello Dave: > >> > >>During the installation process, there could be a prompt that says > >>"Please choose the international braille table you want to use as the > >>display braille table when using the program. Please choose from the > >>list below:". You could ship the product with the North American > >>display as the default. > >> > >>You could then choose the language from a list box with the <UP> and > >><DOWN> arrow keys or you could make the selection by clicking with the > >>mouse. > >> > >>What do others think. > >> > >>Siincerely: > >> > >>Dave Durber > >> > >>On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:00:07 -0500, you wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Hello, Testers; > >>> > >>>I need you opinion on an issue regarding what happens when DBT boots > >>>up for the first time. > >>> > >>>This involves the Global, Internationalization, Braille Code for > >>>Display > >>> > >>>Some background is necessary here. > >>> > >>>In DBT, if you are looking at a braille file in braille dot font, you > >>>see the actual dot pattern that will hopefully be embossed. If you > >>>are looking at a braille file with an inkprint font, things get more > interesting. > >>> > >>>In North America, we are used to seeing a full cell represented with > >>>an equal sign. Why? Because that is the way we do it, and all braille > >>>devices set for North American braille know that an equal sign means a > full cell. > >>>If you are using a braille display device with a screen review > >>>program, the screen review program looks at the equal sign on the > >>>screen and puts a full cell on the braille display. > >>> > >>>But in France, they prefer an accented e as the print representation > >>>of a full cell. > >>> > >>>DBT has several different tables. If you want to, you can experiment > >>>with them by selecting Global, Internationalization, Braille Code for > Display. > >>>Be sure to have a braille file, and select an inkprint font to view > >>>it (otherwise, nothing changes). > >>> > >>>----------------------------------------- > >>> > >>>Where things get interesting is that the French do not like the > >>>system as it is. Up till now, when you first boot up DBT, it defaults > >>>to North American. This does not bother Americans at all. > >>>But it is annoying to those who give tech support in France who have > >>>to keep telling people to go to Global, Internationalization, Braille > >>>Code for Display, and then choose "French" > >>> > >>>To deal with this, Pete has put in some code that says "If this is > >>>the first time this code is being used, and you are in France", set > >>>for French Braille Code for display. > >>> > >>>That is all well and good. But if someone were using a computer 100 > >>>meters into Belgium, (and had told Windows that their nation was > >>>Belgium), then DBT would still default to North American because the > nation is not French. > >>> > >>>---------------------------------------- > >>> > >>>I think it would be a good idea to extend Peter's idea. I offer a > proposal. > >>>If we can come to some agreement, then DBT can wake up more > >>>internationalized than before. > >>> > >>>---------------------------------------- > >>> > >>>Step 1: > >>> > >>>If located in France, use French display code If located in Germany, > >>>use German display code If located in Spain, use Spanish display code > >>>If located in the UK, use the British display code > >>> > >>>Step 2: > >>> > >>>If located in Europe (i.e. the nation's telephone country code starts > >>>with > >>>3 or 4) > >>> and the language of interface is French, the use French display code > >>>and the language of interface is German, use the German display code > >>>and the language of interface is Spanish, use the Spanish display > >>>code ?? if the language of interface is English, do we use North > >>>American or Britich display code (the question is, does nayone > >>>outside of the UK ever use the British display code) > >>> > >>>Step 3: > >>>If located outside of Europe ... > >>>(I have no idea of anything but to default to North American) (I do > >>>not know if those in South America use North American settings or > >>>Spanish settings on their braille devices) > >>> > >>>Some of you may have noticed that DBT does not have any Italian > >>>tables for braille display. At this point, I do not have a valid > >>>table (defined as a unique, single ASCII character for every > >>>64 braille symbols; no braille symbols left out). > >>>I would welcome a valid Italian table. > >>> > >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>------ > >>> > >>>Please respond to this. I would like to work this out quickly. > >>> > >>>-- David Holladay > >>> > >>> > >>>* * * > >>>* This message is via list duxhelp at freelists.org. > >>>* To unsubscribe, send a blank message with > >>>* unsubscribe > >>>* as the subject to <duxhelp-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also > >>>* subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other > >>>subscription > >>>* options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive > >>>* is also located there. > >>>* Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com > >>>* * * > >>> > >>> > >>* * * > >>* This message is via list duxhelp at freelists.org. > >>* To unsubscribe, send a blank message with > >>* unsubscribe > >>* as the subject to <duxhelp-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also > >>* subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription > >>* options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive > >>* is also located there. > >>* Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com > >>* * * > >> > >> > >> > >* * * > >* This message is via list duxhelp at freelists.org. > >* To unsubscribe, send a blank message with > >* unsubscribe > >* as the subject to <duxhelp-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also > >* subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription > >* options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive > >* is also located there. > >* Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com > >* * * > > > > > > > > > * * * > * This message is via list duxhelp at freelists.org. > * To unsubscribe, send a blank message with > * unsubscribe > * as the subject to <duxhelp-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also > * subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription > * options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive > * is also located there. > * Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com > * * * > > * * * > * This message is via list duxhelp at freelists.org. > * To unsubscribe, send a blank message with > * unsubscribe > * as the subject to <duxhelp-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also > * subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription > * options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive > * is also located there. > * Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com > * * * * * * * This message is via list duxhelp at freelists.org. * To unsubscribe, send a blank message with * unsubscribe * as the subject to <duxhelp-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>. You may also * subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription * options by visiting //www.freelists.org. The list archive * is also located there. * Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com * * *