[duxhelp] Re: Request for input on DBT installation

  • From: "Jack Maartman" <jmaartman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:39:31 -0700

I do not want to stray off topic, but unless the braille reading world can
confine itself to no more than two tables, I anticipate a lot of trouble. I
realize this is neither Duxbury's function nor call, and I persist in my
belief that braille has become an eight-dot system, with a variable set of
six dot encodings. I also realize that this is not pertinent to the next
release, so I hope you will all forgive me.

Jack


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:15 AM
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Request for input on DBT installation


> Lissa,
>
> I also prefer to read braille in "ASCII" form.  But the trouble is that
> people worldwide have a different defintion of what that means.  Try this:
> with a braille document opened in DBT, select "Print Font" from the View
> menu.  Now, using the Global, Internationalization menu, change the
braille
> encoding (the lower setting).  Ignore the warning message (which applies
> only if you're viewing with braille or simbraille fonts) and behold the
> results.
>
> - peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of Melissa Hirshson
> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:55 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Request for input on DBT installation
>
> This is very interesting. As a transcriber, I do not know how else braille
> could be represented other than ascii characters, since that is how all
word
> processing is done. Even the Tiger embosser, which is trying to marry
> graphics and braille, uses ascii when it comes to braille. When I need to
> quickly dash off a simbraille printout for a signage customer, I just type
> in the ascii characters directly into a blank Word file. Transcribing is,
in
> a sense, very, VERY glorified word processing--how else would we do it
> without ascii?
>
> You are right, of course, in that in an ideal world we could emboss
braille
> or New York Point or graphics all together without any difficulties. We
just
> have to make sure that the ability to function otherwise is not
compromised.
>
> We at National Braille Press look at ascii characters all day, every day.
> That is mostly because we need to make corrections to files without
> retranslating them. I'm sure this is the case for the other major braille
> printing houses. I don't know how much braille the major houses produce
> versus the smaller organizations, but even if we are a "tiny minority" of
> people, we can't work any other way.
>
> And the beat goes on. :)
>
> Lissa
> NBP
>
> David Holladay wrote:
>
> >This is a great idea. But it is a bit impractical. The problem is that
> >virtually all of our users do not understand the concept of an encoding
> >between ASCII and braille characters.
> >
> >In one sense, it is an obsolete concept. A truely modern embosser would
> >allow an arbitrary use of the field of dots.
> >If you want graphics, fine. If you want New York Point (2 dots high, 2,
> >3, or 4 wide) fine. If you wanted to experiment with a 4 by 4 block
> >that allowed perfec representation of a 16 bit Uni-code, fine. To do
> >this would require the driving software to express raw dot patterns.
> >
> >But back to the task at hand. Braille transcribers who only look at dot
> >patterns do not ever look at ASCII representations of braille. Many
> >users do not closely examine the braille, they just output and give it
> >to blind people for comment.
> >
> >So only a small minority want or need an ASCII representation. Of
> >those, only a tiny number would have a problem if it was not exactly
> >set the way they want it right out of the box, as long as we follow a
> >protocol as I have suggested.
> >
> >Believe me, the DBT team has discussed asking users this question many
> >times. Each time we conclude we will lose people if we try to explain it.
> >
> >-- David Holladay (with a tip of the hat to Peter, who dearly wishes
> >all embossers could be addressed as strictly a field of dots)
> >
> >---------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 08:18 AM 7/22/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hello Dave:
> >>
> >>During the installation process, there could be a prompt that says
> >>"Please choose the international braille table you want to use as the
> >>display braille table when using the program. Please choose from the
> >>list below:".  You could ship the product with the North American
> >>display as the default.
> >>
> >>You could then choose the language from a list box with the <UP> and
> >><DOWN> arrow keys or you could make the selection by clicking with the
> >>mouse.
> >>
> >>What do others think.
> >>
> >>Siincerely:
> >>
> >>Dave Durber
> >>
> >>On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:00:07 -0500, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hello, Testers;
> >>>
> >>>I need you opinion on an issue regarding what happens when DBT boots
> >>>up for the first time.
> >>>
> >>>This involves the Global, Internationalization, Braille Code for
> >>>Display
> >>>
> >>>Some background is necessary here.
> >>>
> >>>In DBT, if you are looking at a braille file in braille dot font, you
> >>>see the actual dot pattern that will hopefully be embossed. If you
> >>>are looking at a braille file with an inkprint font, things get more
> interesting.
> >>>
> >>>In North America, we are used to seeing a full cell represented with
> >>>an equal sign. Why? Because that is the way we do it, and all braille
> >>>devices set for North American braille know that an equal sign means a
> full cell.
> >>>If you are using a braille display device with a screen review
> >>>program, the screen review program looks at the equal sign on the
> >>>screen and puts a full cell on the braille display.
> >>>
> >>>But in France, they prefer an accented e as the print representation
> >>>of a full cell.
> >>>
> >>>DBT has several different tables. If you want to, you can experiment
> >>>with them by selecting Global, Internationalization, Braille Code for
> Display.
> >>>Be sure to have a braille file, and select an inkprint font to view
> >>>it (otherwise, nothing changes).
> >>>
> >>>-----------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>Where things get interesting is that the French do not like the
> >>>system as it is. Up till now, when you first boot up DBT, it defaults
> >>>to North American. This does not bother Americans at all.
> >>>But it is annoying to those who give tech support in France who have
> >>>to keep telling people to go to Global, Internationalization, Braille
> >>>Code for Display, and then choose "French"
> >>>
> >>>To deal with this, Pete has put in some code that says "If this is
> >>>the first time this code is being used, and you are in France", set
> >>>for French Braille Code for display.
> >>>
> >>>That is all well and good. But if someone were using a computer 100
> >>>meters into Belgium, (and had told Windows that their nation was
> >>>Belgium), then DBT would still default to North American because the
> nation is not French.
> >>>
> >>>----------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>I think it would be a good idea to extend Peter's idea. I offer a
> proposal.
> >>>If we can come to some agreement, then DBT can wake up more
> >>>internationalized than before.
> >>>
> >>>----------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>Step 1:
> >>>
> >>>If located in France, use French display code If located in Germany,
> >>>use German display code If located in Spain, use Spanish display code
> >>>If located in the UK, use the British display code
> >>>
> >>>Step 2:
> >>>
> >>>If located in Europe (i.e. the nation's telephone country code starts
> >>>with
> >>>3 or 4)
> >>> and the language of interface is French, the use French display code
> >>>and the language of interface is German, use the German display code
> >>>and the language of interface is Spanish, use the Spanish display
> >>>code ?? if the language of interface is English, do we use North
> >>>American or Britich display code (the question is, does nayone
> >>>outside of the UK ever use the British display code)
> >>>
> >>>Step 3:
> >>>If located outside of Europe ...
> >>>(I have no idea of anything but to default to North American) (I do
> >>>not know if those in South America use North American settings or
> >>>Spanish settings on their braille devices)
> >>>
> >>>Some of you may have noticed that DBT does not have any Italian
> >>>tables for braille display. At this point, I do not have a valid
> >>>table (defined as a unique, single ASCII character for every
> >>>64 braille symbols; no braille symbols left out).
> >>>I would welcome a valid Italian table.
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>------
> >>>
> >>>Please respond to this. I would like to work this out quickly.
> >>>
> >>>-- David Holladay
> >>>
> >>>
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