[duxhelp] Re: Compinline codes

  • From: "Jack Maartman" <jmaartman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:06:05 -0700

I can't help replying to this a little mischieviously. UEBC got approved by
those who wanted it. The nasty legend about UEBC is that it was Joe's idea,
to simplify the braille rules, to promote the siddemination of DBT.  Bana,
more than any other braille code in the world, has become so bogged down
with with rules, that there are now three sets of emphasis indicators, and
in spite of Caryn's very succinct explanation, the whole bana rules book is
becoming a codex not a manual. Most of these rules are aimed at kids in
school who are supposed to internalize them so they can read their
textbooks. What happens!!?, they leave the texts and the rules behind.

One of the things that impresses me about the work of the French equivalent
of Bana is reliance on simplicity, and a French Codebook is thinner than a
restaurant menu.

Clearly the Translation tables in DBT, really do approximate the rule books
for the various braille codes.

Popularly, the impression is that, DBT can produce perfect braille via the
touch of a button.  I'm not working in the field, I have designed my own
kind of braille for my own needs, yet for some reason, I don't want to
dispel this myth, especially now we have swift.  Any braille authority, is
out of necessity forced to be a bit anally retentive, and that puts a freeze
on innovation.  So we can go on inventing our own braille, and if we adhere
closely enough to the original system that Louis Braille, got of the ground
in the early decades of the nineteenth century, we should all be able to
read one another's braille, even after flagrant rule violation.  Of course
the further you get away from literary braille, the more codes prolifferate.

Few of us consider braille music, which is so different from any other
braille, and yet so suscinctly conveys what it intends that it is a
veritable miracle.

Braille translation packages, in my view, do two things, they present
braille rules in a straight-forward manner, and they make it easier for
those who don't know braille, to produce text in a form, likely to be
intelligible to the reader.

Jack
---- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:31 PM
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Compinline codes


> J. R.,
>
> The BANA folks may jump in at any moment to defend themselves; I'll take a
> stab at it first.  I don't think that anybody minds if you make braille
for
> your own use just as you (or your intended audience) wants.  People who
fuss
> about BANA rules are only concerned about their own work and other work
> intended for publication.
>
> - Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of Westmoreland, J. R.
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 3:25 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Compinline codes
>
> You're correct I'm not a Certified Transcriber.
> I have, so far, only done things for myself and a small group of others in
> the technical arena.
> I guess in my case I err on the side of the rule that says, "Does it make
> sense to the intended audience."
> That might cause me to be burned at the stake by the BANA people but, on
the
> other hand, maybe not. <grin> Having said all that I do, where possible,
try
> to follow the rules even though some may not make a lot of sense in the
> current technical light.
>
> J. R.
>
>
>
> ______________________________
> J. R. Westmoreland
> PacifiCorp
> I/T
> Telecomm Data Communications
> Phone: (801) 220-4784
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 12:59 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Compinline codes
>
> J. R.,
>
> It's obvious that you are a braille reader, but not a transcriber.
>
> I won't hazard a guess at how to summarize how to transcribe print to
> braille.  Some people figure we should "follow the print".  Others figure
we
> should "follow the rules".  Often these overlap, but not always.  And the
> rules change from country to country.
>
> One rule which you may find interesting is that, here in North America
(BANA
> territory), one should *not* indicate emphasis when the emphasis is given
> because the text is a header.  However, emphasis within a header should be
> shown.  I suppose that, if most headers are bold, but one is bold and
> italic, then one should show the italic.  But I don't pretend to know for
> sure.
>
> DBT "implements" this rule in the Word importer by ignoring bold and
italic
> when they are part of the definition of a paragraph style.  It works
mostly
> as people would expect, even though it isn't really a direct
implementation
> of the rule, which is meaning-oriented not file format oriented.
>
> We try to make the product work for most cases in the way that most
> transcribers will want.  In other words, we try to "follow the rules"
> more than "follow the print".  But we don't have a pure approach at this
> either.
>
> - Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Westmoreland, J. R.
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:40 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Compinline codes
>
> Maybe this is a dumb question on my part but...
> Isn't the transcription of print to braille supposed to be as faithful as
> reasonably possible?
> Therefore, if the text is unserlined etc. shouldn't it be using the
emphasis
> indicators for inside the CBC start and end?
> This could apply to program code where the keywords are bold etc.
> Is there a difference in that interpretation based on nationality
> boundaries?
>
> I ask since I have a document where the author specifically does some
> hyperlinks in italics and underlined but other hyperlinks are just
> unerelined.
> I understand that braille doesn't make a distinction between these
> combinations, it being treated as eigher on or off in terms of emphasis.
>
> Thanks,
> J.R.
>
>
>
> ______________________________
> J. R. Westmoreland
> PacifiCorp
> I/T
> Telecomm Data Communications
> Phone: (801) 220-4784
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Christine Simpson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 4:05 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Compinline codes
>
> Susan, I understand what you are saying in response to my previous post
> however, I do not believe that we should need to be altering the Word
> hyperlink style.
>
> Surely, DBT can be programmed to ignore the underlining of hyperlink text
> when the text is within DBT set in the compinline codes.  By doing as you
> suggest and changing the hyperlink style within the Word template would
> affect the visual look of all word documents and to my mind, this would be
> completely unsatisfactory.
>
> I hope this makes sense to programmers like Peter and Jo.  I will be
> interested to hear your responses.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Christine
>
>
>
> At 12:49 AM 7/21/04, you wrote:
> >DBT is honoring the Word Hyperlink style, which is underlined (but as
> >Christine has said, you don't want the dots 4-6 in braille).
> >
> >You can modify Word's Hyperlink by removing the underlining. You can
> >also change the font to Courier New (if you have your Word importer set
>
> >up that way), but in reality DBT doesn't even need that for the
> >Hyperlink style. If you want the Word Hyperlink style to be permanently
>
> >changed for all future documents, make sure you check "Add to template"
> >after you are done modifying Hyperlink.
> >
> >Susan
> >
> >Christine Simpson wrote on 7/20/2004, 5:42 AM:
> >
> >           Hi All,
> >
> >I have been trying out the "compinline" code and believe that there
> >still may be an error with it.
> >
> >Some weeks ago I raised the concern about how it was dealing with text.
>
> >Peter and Jo gave this a lot of time and that problem seems to have
> >been solved.  However,  I note that when text which in word is
> >formatted as a hyperlink  is imported into DBT10.5, it is surrounded by
>
> >the compinline codes - and so it should be.  However, the problem is
> >that the underlining is being shown and so,  a web address which comes
> >from word into DBT comes as:
> >
> ><compinline>[fts~u]www.duxburysystems.com[fte~u]</compinline>
> >
> >and the web address appears in computer code brackets with dots 4-6
> >(between the opening code and the first w) to indicate the underlined
> text.
> >
> >Is anyone else experiencing this problem?
> >
> >Many thanks
> >
> >Christine
> >
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>
>          * * * * *
> Christine Simpson
> Information Alternatives
> Accessing The Information You Need
> 18 Prosper Parade
> Glen Iris VIC 3146
> AUSTRALIA
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> Mob:  0418 331 506
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> Email:  simpsonc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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