[dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday Morning Review (comments)
- From: Johnathan Detrick <jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:21:14 -0400
That sounds good. I like that idea.
jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Maybe it is a catch-22, and maybe it
> isn't, buddy! :) I have one more acorn
> of wisdom to share with my fellow
> chipmunks on the oak tree of life.
>
> Sure, the characters all "Qualify" to
> become gods. But, one detail I didn't
> mention, and failed to specify - the
> one thing that I will insist we abide
> by when the time comes - is that nature
> of the world we create will entirely
> depend on who actually creates it.
>
> What was that I just said? Ok, let me
> try again. Let's say that Quasit ends
> up being the one who gets things
> rolling. Ultimately, he'd decide such
> things as at what point the world
> begins (protozoa or advanced
> renaissance) or how structured/chaotic
> society is. This person would
> determine if humans dominate, or elves,
> or if the forces of evil are mighty and
> threatening the rest of the world.
>
> Only then would the pantheon be
> defined. So if someone like Amrikol
> decides things, the new gods will find
> themselves called upon by worshippers
> in a harsh, unforgiving world. If
> Ambrosia (yeah right) set things up, it
> would be kumbayaa and everything goes.
> If Baish set it up, everyone but him
> would be a babe.
>
> So there is something to fight for -
> and maybe more than you realize. In
> this unique case, and if you think your
> characters would, it's perfectly
> acceptable for them to ACTIVELY
> influence the course of events. If
> this means that Gadget needs to
> backstab Magnus because he doesn't want
> his vision to prevail, then so be it.
>
> That's what I'm really hoping to see.
> I'm not expecting the moon and stars,
> but some real sweating bullets on the
> part of the characters would make me
> feel that all this work was worth it.
>
> > Okay, I have a quick minute to jump
> in here. It took me until now to read
> > through all of the emails from
> Thursday through today, so I'm going to
> > include thoughts from different
> conversations into this one email. :)
> >
> > Let's see:
> >
> > I have been enjoying Jim's plot very
> much. More so than John has been and
> > it makes sense based on what Jim and
> John both said. I have not been
> > getting anxious about what is going
> to happen to these guys. Even though we
> > are ending the longest campaign we
> have ever played. (Even longer for
> John,
> > Keith and Jim.)
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed listening to
> the story that Jim has been unfolding
> > and thinking about the awesome things
> that the characters have either
> > witnessed or participated in. I
> didn't really think about Penny and
> Brain
> > on Gadget's world, I mostly thought
> about the Gods running rampant and the
> > "creatures" that we fought. So, that
> part has been great!!!
> >
> > However, having said that and
> relating to something else that Jim
> mentioned,
> > I almost feel like it doesn't really
> matter what we do with this. As Jim
> > said, our characters are going to
> become Gods, one way or another. It is
> > pre-determined, apparently, so it's
> almost like we're just putting our
> > characters through the paces just to
> get to the end. We could almost not
> > even try and still get to become
> Gods. As Jim said, we are going to have
> > fun putting a pantheon together and
> that will be very cool, but to me, it
> > somewhat takes away from the journey
> to get there because we already know
> > that we are going to get there. Even
> if characters die, they can still
> > become Gods. So where is the
> challenge?
> >
> > From my point of view, Jim is telling
> a tremendous story that is awesome.
> > No question. But, because he (and
> we) already know that the characters are
> > going to become Gods, he is more
> telling a story for the
> characters/players
> > to hear, rather than weaving an
> adventure for the characters to
> participate
> > in and influence. Does this make
> sense?
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I am having a
> good time playing these guys and the
> > interaction between the PC's is
> great, but there isn't an overriding
> sense
> > of danger, simply because we know
> that we will succeed in one form or
> > another.
> >
> > So, it's a catch 22 really. If Jim
> had proceeded with the plot and let us
> > think that there was a very real
> chance that we might not become Gods,
> then
> > it gives it more of a "danger" level
> and a sense of urgency. It also causes
> > John to get ulcers worrying about how
> this campaign is going to end and
> > thus, he does not enjoy it as much.
> >
> > By the same token, with Jim telling
> us that "if you have a character
> > involved in this, they will become a
> God unless you say otherwise", we
> > already know that their destiny is
> pre-determined. It's like going to a
> job
> > interview after you've been hired for
> the job. You just have to show up and
> > act normal and you are set.
> >
> > Okay, this email got way too long.
> I'll talk about my characters and their
> > becoming or not becoming Gods in
> another email, if I have time.
> >
> > Suffice it to say that I am having a
> very good time with this and the story
> > is awesome.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Johnathan Detrick
> [mailto:jdetrick@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002
> 2:36 PM
> > To: dungeoncrawl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [dungeoncrawl] Re: Tuesday
> Morning Review (comments)
> >
> >
> > I think that we have the right
> idea. While we may need to cover
> > some godly bases (like magic and
> such), we can really make our pantheon
> > different by focusing more on the
> personalities. Quasit might be
> > careful planning and forethought;
> Gadget might be style; Talon might be
> > greed. That sort of thing.
> >
> > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > > Sort of like Ambrosia - not a
> goddess
> > > of lust and hedonism, but of
> > > freedom/tolerance/beauty. Escrima
> (if
> > > she got drug into this) might
> become a
> > > goddess of isolation, loneliness,
> and
> > > fear (and patron of
> shapeshifters). We
> > > could have loads of fun with this.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I had already thought that
> > > perhaps Magnus should not be a magic
> > > god,
> > > > but a god of ambition, power and
> > > chaos. That sort of thing. I'm
> being
> > > > called to a meeting; I'll be back
> > > with more afterward.
> > > >
> > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Good - I'm glad to hear it. I
> have
> > > to
> > > > > remind myself to have fun also -
> for
> > > > > everyone's benefit, sort of see
> the
> > > > > next session or two as a
> departure
> > > from
> > > > > the norm.
> > > > >
> > > > > There might be (and might not
> be)
> > > > > plenty of carnage, but that
> comes
> > > from
> > > > > the freedom of knowing that
> we're
> > > going
> > > > > to have fun putting a pantheon
> > > together
> > > > > in another few weeks that
> involves
> > > the
> > > > > same characters.
> > > > >
> > > > > For that purpose, I really do
> need
> > > to
> > > > > tell you/admit two things:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. If anyone has a character
> that
> > > is
> > > > > involved with current events
> (even
> > > if
> > > > > they're just hanging around
> Sigil)
> > > and
> > > > > you as a player do NOT want
> them to
> > > > > become a power, don't use them
> next
> > > > > time on the mission. Anything
> goes
> > > > > from the time they leave the
> city
> > > on.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. If you have specific ideas
> about
> > > > > what type of power you would
> like to
> > > > > see your character become, also
> let
> > > me
> > > > > know! For example, although
> Dennis
> > > > > doesn't have any aspirations
> towards
> > > > > godhood, I have a feeling it's
> in
> > > his
> > > > > future.
> > > > >
> > > > > To that end, I can already say
> that
> > > > > he'd of course make a good
> patron of
> > > > > bards and god of music and
> > > literature,
> > > > > but also that he'd be a god with
> > > some
> > > > > sort of pantheonic reference to
> > > > > trust/fidelity/loyalty
> somehow. It
> > > > > would be great to see the
> > > characters'
> > > > > personality traits mainifest as
> > > > > domains, such as giving Magnus
> > > domain
> > > > > over ambition in addition to
> other
> > > > > things (even if he doesn't want
> to
> > > be).
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe if we all start thinking
> about
> > > > > that process, we can put less
> > > pressure
> > > > > on the current game - that
> stuff's
> > > > > almost more fun anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, in closing - what did you
> all
> > > think
> > > > > about Gadget's world? I
> thought it
> > > > > rocked!
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure it helps. Actually,
> I
> > > would
> > > > > have been quite happy had you
> been
> > > > > > able to stay and talk. I had
> > > wanted
> > > > > to speak with everyone (you
> > > > > > included) to try and figure
> out
> > > why I
> > > > > was not enjoying myself as I
> > > > > > thought I should be.
> > > Unfortunately,
> > > > > you had to leave, and I had
> plenty
> > > > > > of time to stay. (Brad is
> taking
> > > > > real-estate classes for the
> next few
> > > > > > weeks, so he doesn't get home
> > > Monday
> > > > > nights until about 10:50pm. No
> > > > > > reason to rush home.)
> > > > > > Yes, I do feel better.
> I'm
> > > going
> > > > > to try next week to just relax
> and
> > > > > > play as my characters would,
> > > instead
> > > > > of trying so hard to "win" the
> > > > > > game. This does help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I almost want to start off
> by
> > > > > > > saying "when you've been in
> this
> > > > > > > business as long as I
> > > have..." :) I
> > > > > > > knew when I left Monday
> that you
> > > > > guys
> > > > > > > had some things to
> talk/think
> > > about,
> > > > > > > and I was glad to give you
> that
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > I wouldn't have added
> anything.
> > > > > Just
> > > > > > > the fact that John didn't
> bolt
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > door at first opportunity
> was a
> > > good
> > > > > > > sign that such was the
> case. :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But seriously, maybe I can
> help
> > > to
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > this easier to come to terms
> > > with.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > first few times we played,
> all
> > > the
> > > > > > > players ended with sort of a
> > > high,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > I'd go home totally stressed
> > > about
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > I was attempting to do.
> That's
> > > why
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > had such serious, sometimes
> > > > > > > argumentative conversations
> for
> > > a
> > > > > few
> > > > > > > weeks there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've had months to wrap my
> mind
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > the enormity of what we're
> > > trying to
> > > > > > > transition through, and it
> seems
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > you might be where I was
> about
> > > the
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > when Shawn visited. Then
> again,
> > > > > I've
> > > > > > > always kept more
> information to
> > > > > myself,
> > > > > > > giving me the "advance"
> dose of
> > > > > anxiety.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But - be of good cheer! I
> > > think I
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > how to phrase this in a way
> that
> > > > > puts
> > > > > > > everything in the proper
> light.
> > > > > Over
> > > > > > > the past few weeks, as I've
> > > > > cautioned
> > > > > > > people on expectations and
> the
> > > > > > > possibility of defeat, my
> sole
> > > > > > > motivation came from a
> desire
> > > to do
> > > > > > > things "right". I wanted
> the
> > > > > players
> > > > > > > to feel that victory was
> > > earned, and
> > > > > > > not just handed to them.
> And I
> > > > > valued
> > > > > > > what we've all committed to
> > > these
> > > > > > > characters and this
> storyline
> > > over
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > years - I want to end well.
> > > Still,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > may have gone too far to
> protect
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > desire out of my own
> anxiety.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's the bottom line:
> > > whoever you
> > > > > > > (meaning us, the group, and
> > > Shawn)
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > to have become gods, can.
> > > Whatever
> > > > > > > pantheon or mythology you
> want
> > > to
> > > > > > > establish, feel free. My
> role
> > > in
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > ends the instant the "Big
> event"
> > > > > takes
> > > > > > > place.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My biggest concern is that
> > > everyone
> > > > > > > leave their anxiety at the
> door.
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > not trying to pigeonhole
> > > everyone
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > ruling a world populated by
> > > > > chickens -
> > > > > > > I just want to tell a
> thrilling
> > > > > story
> > > > > > > (so try to sit back and
> enjoy
> > > the
> > > > > ride).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I noticed Monday that
> everyone
> > > > > tended
> > > > > > > to take things a bit too
> > > seriously
> > > > > > > (again, I've had a part to
> play
> > > in
> > > > > > > that) - distance yourselves
> > > from the
> > > > > > > story for a second and just
> > > think
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > all the cool, amazing things
> > > that we
> > > > > > > roleplayed through. Gadget
> > > > > restoring
> > > > > > > the world - Magnus and
> Celane's
> > > > > > > showdown - the deceased
> > > characters'
> > > > > > > difficult decisions when
> > > confronted
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > Kelemvor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The next time we play, I
> hope
> > > to DM
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > VERY challenging
> adventure. The
> > > > > Riders
> > > > > > > will face their greatest
> > > obstacle in
> > > > > > > attaining godhood, and may
> even
> > > > > have to
> > > > > > > die on purpose to succeed.
> If
> > > > > anyone
> > > > > > > has a weak stomach by then,
> I
> > > can
> > > > > bring
> > > > > > > some dramamine along - but
> > > really,
> > > > > > > we're not succeeding if
> > > everyone is
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > uptight about the
> significance
> > > of
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > to not have fun...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did this discussion help
> any?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ok, I finally have
> caught
> > > up
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > my work, and I thought I
> would
> > > > > respond
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > Jim's e-mail. My
> feelings on
> > > the
> > > > > > > current plot? I'm honestly
> not
> > > > > sure.
> > > > > > > I spent
> > > > > > > > about 30 minutes talking
> with
> > > Matt
> > > > > > > and Damon after Monday's
> game
> > > > > trying to
> > > > > > > > figure out just what my
> > > feelings
> > > > > > > were. I'm not sure how
> much of
> > > a
> > > > > > > conclusion I
> > > > > > > > came to, and I wish Matt
> and
> > > Damon
> > > > > > > had more time free to
> respond
> > > and
> > > > > chat,
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > they could include their
> > > feelings.
> > > > > > > As it is, I'll try and
> speak as
> > > > > > > accurately
> > > > > > > > as possible.
> > > > > > > > Monday night didn't
> gel
> > > with
> > > > > me,
> > > > > > > and it's really weird. The
> > > first
> > > > > few
> > > > > > > times
> > > > > > > > we played this plot, with
> the
> > > > > Riders
> > > > > > > going after the power, I was
> > > > > psyched to
> > > > > > > > high heaven. Jim did
> such a
> > > > > > > tremendous job, and I was
> loving
> > > > > every
> > > > > > > minute of
> > > > > > > > it. But the last few
> sessions
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > been less exciting for me
> and
> > > I'm
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > why. I tend to think
> it's a
> > > > > > > combination of quite a few
> > > things.
> > > > > One
> > > > > > > of them is
> > > > > > > > a feeling of anxiety. We
> are
> > > > > > > bringing to an end the
> > > adventures
> > > > > of a
> > > > > > > group of
> > > > > > > > characters we have played
> for
> > > > > over a
> > > > > > > decade (or at least,
> bringing
> > > their
> > > > > > > mortal
> > > > > > > > adventures to an end).
> While
> > > the
> > > > > > > characters will continue as
> > > NPCs and
> > > > > > > potential
> > > > > > > > background material, they
> will
> > > > > never
> > > > > > > be played again. What we
> are
> > > doing
> > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > major thing, and I am
> honestly
> > > > > > > concerned about how it will
> turn
> > > > > out.
> > > > > > > Jim has
> > > > > > > > dropped countless hints
> that
> > > > > things
> > > > > > > may not turn out the way we
> want
> > > > > them
> > > > > > > to,
> > > > > > > > and we should be prepared
> for
> > > > > > > anything, and as he dropped
> > > more and
> > > > > > > more, I
> > > > > > > > became more and more
> > > concerned.
> > > > > How
> > > > > > > is this going to end?
> > > > > > > > Of course, there is
> > > always an
> > > > > > > element of uncertainty in
> > > anything
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > do. But
> > > > > > > > what Jim does now closes a
> > > rather
> > > > > > > large chapter in our
> history.
> > > Not
> > > > > > > knowing
> > > > > > > > what characters will be
> > > affected
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > how they will be affected
> > > bothers
> > > > > me. I
> > > > > > > > find that I'm not enjoying
> > > myself,
> > > > > > > but instead worrying about
> the
> > > > > outcome
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > every single encounter and
> > > every
> > > > > > > single decision. I'm
> concerned
> > > > > that we
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > make a wrong turn, and
> > > catastrophe
> > > > > > > will ensue.
> > > > > > > > Personally, I'm just
> > > ready for
> > > > > > > the plot to be over, so I
> can
> > > > > breathe a
> > > > > > > sigh
> > > > > > > > of relief, and move on to
> > > > > something
> > > > > > > else. It's weird, because
> I'd
> > > like
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > move
> > > > > > > > back to the Sigil or to
> the
> > > lower
> > > > > > > level group of Riders where
> I
> > > play
> > > > > > > Quincy and
> > > > > > > > Ilana. Why? Because I
> don't
> > > > > care as
> > > > > > > strongly what happens to
> those
> > > > > > > > characters. If they die,
> if
> > > the
> > > > > DM
> > > > > > > turns them into chickens, if
> > > their
> > > > > arms
> > > > > > > fall
> > > > > > > > off, no matter what
> happens,
> > > it's
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > nearly as important as my
> > > feelings
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > > the current Riders.
> > > > > > > > Does this make sense?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim and Karen wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, what did you guys
> think
> > > of
> > > > > last
> > > > > > > night? To be honest, it
> was my
> > > > > favorite
> > > > > > > > > night of this entire
> story
> > > > > line - I
> > > > > > > loved developing Gadget's
> > > supporting
> > > > > > > > > cast, and enjoyed
> seeing the
> > > > > > > results of tons of
> groundwork
> > > come
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > light
> > > > > > > > > (like introducing
> Kolyarut-
> > > 13
> > > > > > > several months ago, and
> having
> > > Dr.
> > > > > Klaw
> > > > > > > defend
> > > > > > > > > himself by taking
> advantage
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > Riders' problems with the
> gods).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also loved giving
> Gadget a
> > > > > chance
> > > > > > > to take on his arch-enemy
> mano-
> > > a-
> > > > > mano,
> > > > > > > > > and he did great. I
> still
> > > can't
> > > > > > > believe how well he kicked
> > > Klaw's
> > > > > butt!
> > > > > > > > > The neat thing was, they
> > > fought
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > a virtual world, where
> Klaw's
> > > > > > > > > artifact-granted godly
> > > powers
> > > > > were
> > > > > > > worthless. Gadget had a
> neat
> > > moment
> > > > > > > > > where he disrupted a
> > > > > transmission
> > > > > > > from the mechanical
> Kolyarut-13
> > > to
> > > > > Klaw
> > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > disrupting the stream of
> > > 1's and
> > > > > > > 0's with his hand.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All of the players did a
> > > great
> > > > > job
> > > > > > > with their characters - they
> > > seemed
> > > > > real
> > > > > > > > > to me. And John, I
> hope you
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > worry about my problems
> DMing
> > > > > > > > > spellcasters (I know we
> > > joked
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > it a lot), but I was fine.
> > > Everyone
> > > > > > > > > really put their all
> into
> > > it,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > it resulted in a great game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Still, I had a hunch
> that
> > > people
> > > > > > > weren't really totally
> enjoying
> > > > > > > themselves,
> > > > > > > > > but I couldn't figure
> out
> > > why.
> > > > > > > Matt, seemed a bit bored
> with
> > > his
> > > > > > > > > characters; John and
> Damon
> > > both
> > > > > > > seemed like they had a lot
> on
> > > their
> > > > > > > minds.
> > > > > > > > > Was it just a stressful
> day
> > > for
> > > > > > > everyone, or did my buddies
> > > have a
> > > > > > > common
> > > > > > > > > concern regarding the
> plot
> > > or
> > > > > game?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Felt it was worth
> asking -
> > > not a
> > > > > > > major deal, but better than
> > > leaving
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > unremedied. Ok, enough
> > > babble
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > me! :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Other related posts:
