[dungeoncrawl] Re: Thursday morning summary

Maybe I can clarify where I was coming 
from, and simultaneously explain where 
my concerns lie.  Nadan's attitude 
isn't necessarily "bad", but it is 
definitely a part of his personality.  
In the past two weeks, he's provoked 
two powerful NPCs who could have been 
dealt with a different way, and in both 
cases, it resulted in problems.

With Elminster, he offended the old 
coot by insisting that he was in the 
wrong.  Elminster's point of view was 
that the gods from the dead world Must 
be contained at all costs.  He also 
felt that renegade Riders who had 
flaunted the god's will already 
(including Nadan) couldn't be anything 
BUT trouble.  So when Nadan unloaded on 
him, he did the most logical thing:  
put all of the problems together in one 
place and let fate sort it out.  The 
fact that Nadan felt he could give 
Elminster such grief and then expect 
his aid demonstrates the attitude I'm 
talking about.

The second time was with Ariakas.  
Mentioning that Talos was dead didn't 
do much, but saying that he was "easy 
to beat" went beyond the pale as far as 
Ariakas would be concerned.  The 
attitude I mention comes from my own 
surprise that Nadan would antagonize a 
chaotic evil priest with seriously 
wounded companions alongside him.

That confrontation sparked the debate 
between Magnus and Amrikol; Amrikol 
felt he didn't really need the riders, 
and Magnus's insinuation that he didn't 
have control offended him.  Combat was 
inevitable at that point.

Not to say that either character was 
out of line; my own characters 
antagonize and offend people all the 
time.  And some of them even are more 
reasonable than Nadan normally.

But my concern comes from the fact that 
you have the two most powerful 
characters in the group, and they're 
easily the most likely to start a 
confrontation.  Much like Ceranno, 
their values or goals take them much 
further than their comrades are ready 
for.

On another note, I have to admit 
something about last night.  The reason 
why the big showdown between the Riders 
and the Legion didn't really happen is 
because I saw how discouraged the 
players were all getting.  I was even 
beginning to hear comments about how 
unlikely it would be that Elminster 
would set them up like that, etc.

Instead of waiting a few more rounds to 
introduce the old Amrikol, I sped 
things up.  I was like, "they don't get 
it - I've made this too convoluted.  
They don't understand that Nadan put 
them in this mess, or that Elminster 
takes the fact that they flaunted the 
gods very seriously."

I have to admit that I'm a bit 
bewildered at this point - I have to 
dump a mountain on the party to handle 
certain characters, and others are very 
vulnerable to such challenges.



>     I can understand your sentiments 
on Nadan.  But I'm surprised to
> hear you say he has a bad attitude.  
I don't see it as bad.  I see it as
> him standing up for what he believes 
in.  I think if he had stayed quiet
> and not confronted Ariakas, it would 
have been a cop-out.  Same with
> confronting Elminster, Mileena and 
Magnus.  In my eyes, he's actually
> acting his alignment.
>     I'm quite enjoying the idea that 
Nadan is very powerful.  He knows
> that he has a lot of strength and he 
isn't willing to compromise his
> principles.  For so many years Magnus 
has lorded things over the Riders,
> in part due to the fact that he could 
wipe the floor with most of them.
> Now he has to face someone with as 
much power as he has, and the
> strength to stand up to him.  I love 
the battle of wills between the two
> of them and just wish they both 
weren't my character.  :)
>     Don't worry about Nadan dying, 
especially if it comes about because
> he stands up for his beliefs.  He 
wasn't intentionally antagonizing
> Ariakas, but he is a cleric of Talos, 
whose pretty opposed to everything
> Lathander stands for.  If Ariakas had 
killed him, so be it.  Not a
> problem on my end.
>     But Jim, don't let Nadan 
intimidate you.  I think, that out of 
all
> of us, high level characters cause 
you more concern than any other DM.
> Nadan is not invulnerable.  He takes 
damage (a lot of damage usually)
> and can be hurt.  He has no real 
protections, and his hit points, while
> high, are not astronomical.  When 
hit, does he not bleed?  :)  Trust me,
> he was close to death quite a bit 
last night.
>     I do have an apology to make to 
you though.  I had Nadan cast
> spontaneous healing last night, as 
clerics can do.  I thought he could
> also swap out Heal and Mass Heal 
spells as well.  Damon mentioned last
> night, when we looked up the rules to 
see if he could spontaneously cast
> Resurrection, that the rules say only 
spells with Cure in the title.  I
> checked it out last night, and Damon 
was right.  So Nadan should not
> have been able to cast as many Mass 
Heal spells as he did last night.
> That should make you feel somewhat 
better.  He takes one and that's it.
> 
> jimkaren@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> 
> > John,
> >
> > You're right on target!  And your
> > summary captures where things stand
> > really well.  OK, so here's the 
deal:
> >
> > The group needs to track down Celane
> > and Dr. Klaw.  Apparently, Celane 
hates
> > the Riders because one of them 
crippled
> > her a long time ago, and her 
resentment
> > is so strong that she's trying to 
keep
> > godhood out of their hands.  Dr. 
Klaw
> > supposedly wants to "liberate" his
> > world from "merchant kings", and 
seems
> > to have been in control of the 
artifact
> > from the start (since he's such a 
bad
> > guy).
> >
> > The gods are important because the 
(now
> > diabolical) Amrikol wanted to use 
them
> > to weaken Dendar enough for him to 
have
> > a chance of gaining power (kind of 
like
> > when Dr. Doom confronted the 
Beyonder
> > for you comics readers).  He seems 
to
> > have lost interest in this pursuit 
as a
> > result of talking to Gargauth, a
> > banished realms power who traded
> > membership in the nine with freedom
> > from hell (since the nine have that
> > authority).
> >
> > I'm really happy with how things are
> > going, and eager to see this 
conclude.
> > As a DM, I'm facing two challenges:
> >
> > 1.  Nadan - nothing against the
> > character or how he's played, but 
he's
> > a combination of bad attitude and
> > tremendous power.  Individuals who
> > might not go berzerk to kill him
> > normally (like Ariakas) find that 
goal
> > to be a necessity when he taunts 
them.
> > Ironically, he's becoming the 
Ceranno
> > of the group.:).
> >
> > This is a problem for me on only one
> > level - I'm worried that if he dies 
as
> > a result of a situation like this, 
it
> > might seem like I'm gunning for the
> > character.  I hope it's understood 
by
> > everyone that if Nadan picks a fight
> > with a big guy and dies, it's really
> > not my preference!
> >
> > 2.  Convolution - I'm worried that 
the
> > plot is becoming so complex that 
people
> > need a score card.  I really, really
> > hope to contain that next week.
> >
> > Also, I see this wrapping up in the
> > next 2-3 weeks - rapidfire, eh?
> >
> > >     Ok, first with a summary, then
> > with thoughts.
> > >
> > >     The Riders had just come from
> > Amrikol's castle in the 
Thunderpeaks,
> > > and had harangued Elminster into
> > transporting them back to Sigil.  He
> > > agreed, but when they passed 
through
> > the Worldwalk spell he cast, they
> > > found themselves in Hell, facing 
the
> > Black Legion, who had been
> > > conversing with some devils.
> > >     The two groups briefly spoke,
> > with Amrikol giving little 
indication
> > > of his plans, when suddenly the 
Black
> > Legion attacked.  Already wounded
> > > from their battle in the castle 
back
> > on Faerun, Quasit and Carpathia
> > > were quickly killed.  Magnus 
wanted
> > to retreat, but the Riders became
> > > separated, and he was unwilling to
> > leave anyone behind.  Mileena used
> > > her necromantic skills to bring
> > Carpathia back as an undead, and the
> > > Riders fought valiantly against 
the
> > Black Legion.
> > >     The battle was going poorly 
when
> > suddenly another Amrikol appeared,
> > > this one looking more like the
> > Amrikol the Riders had faced in 
their
> > > early days.  He declared the other
> > Amrikol an impostor, and spat on the
> > > Black Legion (except for Talon) 
who
> > he felt had betrayed him by working
> > > for the doppleganger.  The Amrikol
> > that had been leading the Black
> > > Legion recently tore off his 
helmet,
> > revealing elvish features that bore
> > > a striking resemblance to 
Magnus.  He
> > began to fight the original
> > > Amrikol, and the Riders tried to 
stay
> > out of the way.  Eventually they
> > > joined the fight against the elven
> > Amrikol, and Magnus finally slew him
> > > with a Meteor Swarm.  However, as
> > soon as he died, he was reborn as 
one
> > > of the Nine, the arch-fiends that
> > rule Hell.  Apparently he had made a
> > > deal with a banished Realms power,
> > although the specifics of the deal
> > > are unknown.
> > >     Faced with the power of this 
new
> > form, the Riders, the original
> > > Amrikol and Talon fled through a
> > portal to Sigil.  Once there they 
went
> > > to Ambrosia's Inn, and parted ways
> > with Amrikol and Talon.  They 
rested,
> > > then resurrected their fallen
> > comrades.  Unsure of what to do, 
they
> > > began to research.  Magnus sent 
some
> > of the group to research how they
> > > might gain the power they have 
been
> > chasing, while he went to free a
> > > devil in exchange for information 
on
> > the new form of the elvish
> > > Amrikol.  He also recruited 
Gadget to
> > their team, as it seems that they
> > > will be dealing with Klaw, his old
> > enemy.
> > >
> > >     So where does that leave them?
> > Let me recap.
> > >     Dennis says that Klaw will 
have
> > joined up with Celane and the
> > > deities, and is heading to his 
home
> > planet.  Supposedly, Celane called
> > > the remnants of the deities to her
> > thanks to an artifact, the claw of
> > > Dendar the Night Serpent.  
However,
> > only someone with no moral
> > > compunctions can use the claw of
> > Dendar to it's full potential, and 
so
> > > Celane will easily lose control of
> > the deities to Klaw.  Klaw will then
> > > use the power he possesses to "set
> > right" things in his world.  The
> > > Riders are going to journey there 
to
> > make sure Klaw does nothing drastic
> > > and to rescue Celane.
> > >     Meanwhile, there is still the
> > problem of gaining the power of the
> > > gods.  According to what the 
Riders
> > have learned, the elvish Amrikol is
> > > now out of the race.  Their devil
> > ally told them that one of the Nine
> > > would have no time or interest in
> > focusing their attention on one 
measly
> > > little prime world when they can
> > affect all realities everywhere by
> > > taking part in the Blood War.  He
> > should no longer be involved.
> > >     However, the original Amrikol 
is
> > now interested in the power.  And
> > > the Riders aren't sure how to get
> > it.  It seems that they need to
> > > destroy Dendar the Night Serpent 
to
> > gain the power, but Dendar killed
> > > all the deities of that Realm, so
> > destroying him is no easy task.  The
> > > Riders are looking into ways to do
> > that now.
> > >
> > >     That's it for me.  I'd be
> > thrilled if someone would comment 
on my
> > > conclusions and tell me if they 
are
> > correct.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> 
> 
>

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