[drivingpairs] Re: water hook?

You assume that the check is used in a painful manner by overtightening 
it and "turning them loose in the stall" to writhe in pain.  No such 
thing does nor should occur when using checks on my place and anyone who 
does isn't a horseman nor would I ever  suggest that someone should do 
such a  thing.
  You suggest in your e-mail that we can agree to disagree and that is 
going to happen more so than not.  This list is for an exchange of ideas 
and developement of new ones.  
You assume that the use of checks should be to teach balance.    You are 
correct in that a horse should be taught to balance without the aid of a 
check but this (again) assumes that the check is used to "teach" balance 
and I've not indicated that useage in any of my responses (if you want 
to get onto the balance subject I can relate to you all the carriage 
driving events I've been to and witnessed entries that are so far from 
balanced it's ridiculous.  One of the very first questions I ever asked 
was after viewing videos of CDE's why the horses I saw were pulling with 
their fronts instead of pushing with their rears).
When properly used, "engagement" with the bit is not interrupted by use 
of a check.  I dare  say that my horses are much more engaged than I've 
seen on many light horses but I use and will continue to use checks in 
order to achieve the results I desire for my type of driving with no 
evidence of interference.
As to teaching a horse to "learn" to be balanced "as in nature" a bit is 
not natural so if the rule of no outside "devises" can be used to teach 
this balance then bits shouldn't be used and if they are then one should 
take care to use the correct bit as the wrong bit can put a horse in the 
wrong "frame of mind".
I trust that you would not classify me as an "uninformed" horseman and 
member of ADS since I do use checks!

While we're at it if you want another topic you can start a discussion 
on the suggestions that have been made (by uninformed members) to 
drastically change ADS rules in Chapter 21 of the green section.
Affectionately yours,
Ken
P.S.  On a personal level, I would like to see exchange of ideas on this 
board without predetermined notions that what someone does to achieve a 
goal is absolutely wrong.  Each one of us come from different 
backgrounds and compete in different venues with our hourses.  As we go 
through these discussions sometimes we say things (and I'm the world's 
worst) that are taken differently than we originally intend (i.e. using 
such words as "painful" to describe a method without ever having seen in 
person the way someone uses a certain technique).  Because there are so 
many novice drivers here our discussions which become "disagreements" 
can be taken as the gospel and passed on as such.  As an example, I 
might question, in an inquisitive way, why you use a certain method but 
because I am not proficient in dressage I would never persume to label 
that method as a  negative.   Here's hoping I've not sturred up a 
hornets nest. kw

noel jones wrote:

>One nice thing about this list is we are allowed to disagree!
>
>I feel that the human touch on the reins in long-lining a horse in circles and 
>figure 8's can much more easily assist a horse in rebalancing itself to shift 
>the weight to the rear and lighten the front.
>
>This move is something most horses do when at liberty and in a good  frame of 
>mind, it just becomes difficult when asked to do it:
>
>1. In Draught
>
>2. When performing turns
>
>By doing it by hand you can indicate when it is required and you may also 
>immediately slack off in reward to the horse when it occurs...but even more 
>important, you  can judge when is a good time to ask for more and when to let 
>the horse relax and get their head together.
>
>The days of setting the head by putting a horse in a stall for hours with a 
>bit 
>and sidecheck are not over...but I feel they learn to avoid the pressure...and 
>in some cases pain...rather than to engage.
>
>Now if you are driving a Shetland with a propensity for grazing whenever 
>possible the ADS shoudl take pity and permit some sotr of protection!
>
>Twisted chain bits are still made, sold and purchased...should they be used?
>
>Kenneth, I don't think that the ADS made the rule...informed horsemanship 
>asked 
>fo rit.
>
>But then I could be totally wrong...let's all talk it over.
>
>Helen and I emailed recently, and woudl like to encourage everyoine to get 
>back 
>to talking...we apologize if recent postings convering posting of off-topc 
>posting might intimidate any list member into being afraid to post...Kenneth 
>did 
>and you should.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


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