[drivingpairs] Re: drivingpairs Digest V5 #80

When I drive my mini mare with her son, a mini mule, and he does anything to 
annoy mom (walk or trot too slow or too fast), she reaches over and tries to 
bite. She cannot because of tightened noseband. However, the threat causes him 
to lean away. Any suggestions? 

Mary Ann Fletcher
Professor
Department of Medicine-R42
University of Miami School of Medicine
1600 NW 10th Ave
Miami, Fl 33136
Office: 305-243-6288; FAX: 305-243-46-74
Cell: 305-975-3450
mfletche@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager [mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:03 AM
To: drivingpairs digest users
Subject: drivingpairs Digest V5 #80

drivingpairs Digest     Tue, 04 Apr 2006        Volume: 05  Issue: 080

In This Issue:
                [drivingpairs] Re: pushing pair
                [drivingpairs] Re: Pushing Pairs
                [drivingpairs] Pair musings
                [drivingpairs] Pushing Pair
                [drivingpairs] Hardy's article
                [drivingpairs] Hardy's Article
                [drivingpairs] Re: Hardy's Article
                [drivingpairs] Private Posting by Mistake
                [drivingpairs] Re: Pair musings
                [drivingpairs] pushing pairs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David  McWethy" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: pushing pair
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:05:37 -0700

Switch them.  This sort of thing seems to come and go.  I was never able to 
determine whether it came from some discomfort of the harness or what.  One 
horse starts it, and the other has to respond, and it escalates.  It can be 
either pushing together or pulling apart.  Sometimes worse going downhill. 
Switching will work, and it may be different when they return to the 
original sides.  Switching is a good idea anyway.

Dave 


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 11:25:11 -0400
From: Lori Horner <redfox@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Pushing Pairs

Hi all! I don't have a solution but I have an uglier problem. My pair of
mares will alternate between REALLY leaning into each other and REALLY
leaning away from each other. It doesn't matter which side they are on -
they still do both. It's like watching little kids in a pushing or
tugging war. They lean so much it looks like they'd fall over. They do
it in a pair and they also do it as my leaders in a four. It doesn't
matter on trail/road conditions or what gait they're doing. They don't
do it with any of my other horses and they are very straight when driven
single. The easy solution would be not to have have paired together but
they are finer built than my wheelers. Besides, I'd really like to
figure out how to solve the problem.
Many thanks in advance,
Lori




------------------------------

From: Hzlax@xxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:39:48 EDT
Subject: [drivingpairs] Pair musings

I very much prefer starting young horses in the pair. Maybe because I am a 
confirmed pair driver. I don't do much single driving at all. I can teach 
bending much better in the pair (figure eights - and I just wrote a long 
article for 
the Pairs website on it. We'll wait till Helen puts it up if you want to read 
more on it- although I have mentioned it a few times already on the list).  
But then, since I am a pair driven in my heart, I have no need to teach the 
horse much single driving either, as I never plan to use them much single. I 
want 
to use them in a pair. This is the pairs list, so here I can admit it. Horses 
are herd animals, they like to be in a pair. So why bother to drive single if 
you have a pair :-).   But yes, I also admit, sometimes they must go single. 
If one doesn't want to pull at all, hey, here comes the tire to pull in the 
ring, first light and slowly weight added. He'll learn to pull. Also, of 
course, 
I have the luxury that my wife does a lot of training under saddle, which 
helps working out some single issues.  But I also find driving a young horse in 
the pair much safer. The older horse give the youngster confidence. He can't 
just turn around and leave town, when he spooks, the old guy holds him steady, 
etc etc.  I have a student here who has four mules and drives them in pairs. 
All of them are fine in the pair, she rides them too, and under saddle has had 
occasional spooks, turn arounds, run aways etc. So she is under strict 
instructions from me to never drive any of her 4 mules single. Too risky. But I 
encourage her to pair them up in any configuration, and it works fine (They are 
ready now also to be driven as four-in-hand, and I have trust and confidence 
that 
we won't have any problems at all. But I don't want to drive any of them 
single. No sir, not me.) 
So for me, friends, it's pairs - and up. The more the merrier. No problem 
either to put a youngster in the wheel of a team. He has even more security 
there, and learns best to go through water, up hills etc etc. Learning in the 
group 
is much easier than by himself, I think.

But I agree, if you do plan to use the horse single one day, or also in a 
tandem, sure, then they also must learn to work single properly.
Hardy



------------------------------

From: Hzlax@xxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:39:50 EDT
Subject: [drivingpairs] Pushing Pair

What happens if you switch them?  And yes, also as Noel suggested, when you 
drive them single? (So contrary to my other post today, this is a good example 
where single driving does have it's benefit!)  And if they are doing it only 
on blacktop, ok, then at least you are ok on other roads. That's good, so we 
need to figure out what the problem is on blacktop, and why are they so afraid 
of it? And then need to find a way to carefully get them to get confidence 
again on blacktop. Drive on regular roads where they are not afraid, and then 
only 
a few steps on blacktop, maybe a blacktop parking lot, where you can get off 
quickly again, if they start leaning, back to the dirt road to go good again. 
Lead them on blacktop, first single, then two people like in a pair, then 
ground drive on blacktop, etc etc. So, as always in training, try to figure out 
what the problem is, and then go back to where you are ok, and then break the 
training down into very small steps to very carefully increase your demands 
from 
there, and only as far as you always can safely. And if you have a problem, 
never ignore it and by driving more with the leaning, it only makes it worse, 
as you have seen. So we have to stop bad behaviour as soon as it appears, and 
find out what the problem is.
Good luck
Hardy


------------------------------

From: "Helen G. Roeder" <sunshinefarm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Hardy's article
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:08:28 -0500

Should have Hardy's article up this afternoon.   Been out being a 'gofer' for 
my farm hand, but I'm back home now and will work on the article and the Sale 
Barn.   Please be patient.
Helen G. Roeder



------------------------------

From: "Helen G. Roeder" <sunshinefarm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Hardy's Article
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:47:20 -0500

Have just posted Hardy's article to the web site.   Working on the Sale Barn 
next.
Helen






------------------------------

From: noel jones <gedeckt@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Hardy's Article
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:33:09 -0400

I'm still swamped but took time to post to CDL to get a few more 
members, maybe.
noel jones, aago
gedeckt@xxxxxxxx
www.frogmusic.com
1 877 249-5251
On Apr 4, 2006, at 2:47 PM, Helen G. Roeder wrote:

> Have just posted Hardy's article to the web site.   Working on the 
> Sale Barn next.
>  
> Helen
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  

------------------------------

From: noel jones <gedeckt@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Private Posting by Mistake
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:58:58 -0400

Ah yes, posting private mail to the list by mistake! Sorry, all....and 
if you are not a member of CDL, it is a great group. 
www.carriagedriving.net

noel jones, aago
gedeckt@xxxxxxxx
www.frogmusic.com
1 877 249-5251
On Apr 4, 2006, at 4:33 PM, noel jones wrote:

> I'm still swamped but took time to post to CDL to get a few more 
> members, maybe.
> noel jones, aago
> gedeckt@xxxxxxxx
> www.frogmusic.com
> 1 877 249-5251
> On Apr 4, 2006, at 2:47 PM, Helen G. Roeder wrote:
>
>> Have just posted Hardy's article to the web site.   Working on the 
>> Sale Barn next.
>>  
>> Helen
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
> _________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: FriesianPrDriver@xxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 20:30:53 EDT
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: Pair musings

Well,
 
We drove the new pair of Friesian mares again last Sunday, although to the  
marathon wagon - not the sleigh ;-).  I had two "navigators" on the  back.  The 
older one is so reliable - she makes it easy breaking in  her little sister.  
We drove on the farm first - past all kinds of "scary"  things - then went 
down the road a couple of miles to a friend's  farm.  The younger one had to 
get 
over yellow traffic lines, scary white  styrofoam boxes in a creek behind a 
guard rail, yellow H's painted on  the road, puddles that might jump up and get 
you, etc.  You could see her  confidence growing as they cruised along.  She 
was so proud of herself when  she finally stomped on the yellow H!  The best 
was the mini paint stallion  that came galloping up to the fenceline right 
along the road - he was scarier  than everything else!  She never knew horses 
came 
that small!  My  friend's paint horses galloping along next to us didn't 
bother her.  When  we arrived, they stood quietly for at least 20 mins while we 
all chatted.   Later on the same day, we drove the pair of ponies over to visit 
also, along  with my Mom's single pony.  Was the best fun we'd all had in a 
while!  :-)  Especially for the ponies - they got to let loose and gallop for a 
 
while in the big back field.  Very happy ponies!  Pairs are way more  fun 
than singles...... 
 
Karen  Wilkin
Star Cross Stable Friesian Horses & Sport Ponies
_www.starcrossstable.com_ (http://www.starcrossstable.com/) 
47  Yellowbrook Rd.
Freehold, NJ 07728
732-919-3827
f:  732-919-3828
e-mail:  FriesianPrDriver@xxxxxxx


------------------------------

From: "Jim & Dorothy Walter" <svrminis@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] pushing pairs
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:58:38 -0700

We had this problem a couple of times with our mini 4-up.  The right leader 
started this in a parade right after a little child ran out from the 
spectators and started petting this horse.  He didn't expect the petting and 
got scared.  For the rest of the parade he leaned on the other leader.  It 
was a site, to be sure.

We were in another parade and the same thing happened.  A mother told her 
child to rush on out there and pet that horse!  WOW, before we could do 
anything about it, this poor little horse was being petted again when he 
didn't expect it and he did the leaning thing again.

We have never switched them.  That does sound like a good way to handle this 
problem to me.  This horse did  stop doing this after each occurance.  But I 
think if he got scared when being driven again, he would probably do the 
same thing.  Seems to me it is a security thing for him.
Dorothy
Sunset Valley Ranch
Quality Miniature Horses
Miniature Schnauzers
Our God Reigns
http://www.sunsetvalleyminis.com




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