[drivingpairs] Re: drivingpairs Digest V3 #188

I have a pair of miniature mules that are siblings. At first the younger =
mule, a molly, let her big brother pull the load. It took a few months =
of constant urging to get her to pull her fair share - but now she does. =
I have added 2 more mules, one a third sibling and the whole group is =
currently under the tutelage of Chuck Drawdy. Come January, I hope to =
have a 4-in-hand.

Mary Ann Fletcher
Professor=20
University of Miami School of Medicine
Miami, FL 33101
305-243-6288 (O)
305-975-3450 (C)
305-243-4674 (FAX)
mfletche@xxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager [mailto:ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:10 AM
To: drivingpairs digest users
Subject: drivingpairs Digest V3 #188


drivingpairs Digest     Tue, 14 Dec 2004        Volume: 03  Issue: 188

In This Issue:
                [drivingpairs] New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving - Reply
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving - To Linda
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving - To Beverly
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
                [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "billbuk@xxxxxxxx" <billbuk@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:10:11 GMT
Subject: [drivingpairs] New to pairs driving


I have just started driving my two bay minis as a pair. I've found that =
the younger one tends to hang back and not stay up in the traces. So the =
older horse is doing all the work. The older horse is a seasoned driving =
horse but the first time he has done pairs driving. The younger one has =
only been driven 3 times (once alone, twice as a pair, but lots of =
ground driving).  I have been urging the younger one to speed up and he =
will for a few seconds but then drops back. This also means that his =
reins are looser and he doens't stay in the bridle. Is this a trait of =
younger horses? What am I doing wrong? The little guys are a perfect =
match and we won the Best Miniature Horse Entry at the Parade of Horses =
in the Charles Town parade on Sunday. So the boys work well together and =
look good, too. But I was annoyed that I had to keep after the younger =
one and it was so evident in some of the pictures that he was hanging =
back. Can this team be saved???? HELP!!!! - carol

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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:28:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Beverly Means <beverlymeans@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Please accept the following with the understanding I have very little =
pair driving experience...
=20
I just got my made pair last year about this time and they are teaching =
me lots each time out...
=20
Mine are full sister pairs...
=20
The oldest is also the largest but not by much
=20
The younger/smaller one lags ...
=20
I believe its because of a life long 'order' that Dolly is the older =
sister therefore the 'boss' ...
=20
The younger one, Betsy, accepts her role in both pasture and harness... =
stay away from Sister's eye...
=20
... a resulting occurance is because Betsy lags, Dolly needs to pull =
Betsy around corners, etc. so she starts rushing to get the job done, =
this job of dragging Betsy girl along... and of course Betsy doesn't =
necessarily appreciate being dragged so she resists ... and the pattern =
gets repeated over and over unless we are going down the road ... not a =
situation you find in most competitions...
=20
So far I feel I've learned just enough to identify the problem... now =
I'm trying to learn how to resolve it <VBG>
=20
If you feel I'm overstating a pony's thought process I invite you to say =
so... I'm concentrating on being a student of this whole pairs thing...
=20
Beverly
"billbuk@xxxxxxxx" <billbuk@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

I have just started driving my two bay minis as a pair. I've found that =
the younger one tends to hang back and not stay up in the traces. So the =
older horse is doing all the work. The older horse is a seasoned driving =
horse but the first time he has done pairs driving. The younger one has =
only been driven 3 times (once alone, twice as a pair, but lots of =
ground driving). I have been urging the younger one to speed up and he =
will for a few seconds but then drops back. This also means that his =
reins are looser and he doens't stay in the bridle. Is this a trait of =
younger horses? What am I doing wrong? The little guys are a perfect =
match and we won the Best Miniature Horse Entry at the Parade of Horses =
in the Charles Town parade on Sunday. So the boys work well together and =
look good, too. But I was annoyed that I had to keep after the younger =
one and it was so evident in some of the pictures that he was hanging =
back. Can this team be saved???? HELP!!!! - carol

________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:55:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Ashworth <bashworth@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Carol,

I have been driving my pair for less than a year, so I am by no
means an expert. BUT, I have learned that the problem you describe
is very common. I have asked many seasoned veterans about this and
I get pretty much the same story.=20
You have what is known as a willing pair.

One is willing to do all the work.
The other is willing to let her do it.

My girls fit this description perfectly. My only advice to keep
after it and they will improve, but only if you insist. Every drive
is a training session. Mine have made major improvements, but still
have a long way to go.=20
Have fun,

Bob Ashworth
Raymond, CA


--- "billbuk@xxxxxxxx" <billbuk@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

>=20
> I have just started driving my two bay minis as a pair. I've
> found that the younger one tends to hang back and not stay up in
> the traces. So the older horse is doing all the work. The older
> horse is a seasoned driving horse but the first time he has done
> pairs driving. The younger one has only been driven 3 times (once
> alone, twice as a pair, but lots of ground driving).  I have been
> urging the younger one to speed up and he will for a few seconds
> but then drops back. This also means that his reins are looser
> and he doens't stay in the bridle. Is this a trait of younger
> horses? What am I doing wrong? The little guys are a perfect
> match and we won the Best Miniature Horse Entry at the Parade of
> Horses in the Charles Town parade on Sunday. So the boys work
> well together and look good, too. But I was annoyed that I had to
> keep after the younger one and it was so evident in some of the
> pictures that he was hanging back. Can this team be saved????
> HELP!!!! - carol
>=20
> ________________________________________________________________
> Juno Gift Certificates
> Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
> http://www.juno.com/give
>=20
> _________________________________________________________
> To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:=20
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>=20
>=20


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:01:44 -0700
From: Robert & Linda Smith <Lrsmith@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Dear Carol, Bob and Beverly,

While I am no expert either, I have driven a pair for about 3 years now=20
and gathered a few awards and ribbons along the way.  I have been taught =

that you encourage the lesser, willing to let her do it, slower horse=20
while slowing the work or faster horse a bit.  It does take a long time=20
and my old pair are still working of sharing the load.  I have another=20
pair that we will start in a year or so when one of them is completely=20
well.  I have been told that an "evener" type single tree will help a=20
little for balancing the load when the pair is in draft.  I have not=20
tried that with my pair as yet and it may be a while as we just ordered=20
a new pair carriage.  There are times when you might have to go back to=20
single driving to let the lessor horse know what it's all about.  I do=20
take my pair out singly quite often.  If you have time you might look=20
at: http://myweb.cableone.net/lrsmith/CDE.htm  where you will see the=20
pair I have been using for several years now.  Also look at: =20
http://www.minihorsecde.com  for more in depth information about =
driving.

All the best to you and yours,

Bob Smith, Petite Elite Miniature Horse Precision Drill Team, Prescott, =
AZ

Bob Ashworth wrote:

>Carol,
>
>I have been driving my pair for less than a year, so I am by no
>means an expert. BUT, I have learned that the problem you describe
>is very common. I have asked many seasoned veterans about this and
>I get pretty much the same story.=20
>You have what is known as a willing pair.
>
>One is willing to do all the work.
>The other is willing to let her do it.
>
>My girls fit this description perfectly. My only advice to keep
>after it and they will improve, but only if you insist. Every drive
>is a training session. Mine have made major improvements, but still
>have a long way to go.=20
>Have fun,
>
>Bob Ashworth
>Raymond, CA
>
>
>--- "billbuk@xxxxxxxx" <billbuk@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> =20
>
>>I have just started driving my two bay minis as a pair. I've
>>found that the younger one tends to hang back and not stay up in
>>the traces. So the older horse is doing all the work. The older
>>horse is a seasoned driving horse but the first time he has done
>>pairs driving. The younger one has only been driven 3 times (once
>>alone, twice as a pair, but lots of ground driving).  I have been
>>urging the younger one to speed up and he will for a few seconds
>>but then drops back. This also means that his reins are looser
>>and he doens't stay in the bridle. Is this a trait of younger
>>horses? What am I doing wrong? The little guys are a perfect
>>match and we won the Best Miniature Horse Entry at the Parade of
>>Horses in the Charles Town parade on Sunday. So the boys work
>>well together and look good, too. But I was annoyed that I had to
>>keep after the younger one and it was so evident in some of the
>>pictures that he was hanging back. Can this team be saved????
>>HELP!!!! - carol
>>
>>________________________________________________________________
>>Juno Gift Certificates
>>Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
>>http://www.juno.com/give
>>
>>_________________________________________________________
>>To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:=20
>>http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.shtml
>>`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>>
>>
>>   =20
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20
>http://mail.yahoo.com=20
>_________________________________________________________
>To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:=20
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>
>
>
> =20
>


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:11:41 -0800
From: Peter & Rachel Eldred <preldred@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Sounds just like my boys. The greener/younger one immediately figured =
out
that if he hangs back, the seasoned horse will do all the work. And the
little sweetie would too if I didn't do something about it.
I have to be on the case of the green one ALL THE TIME. Some days are =
better
than others, and there is overall improvement, but it will probably =
always
be that way to some degree. Don't give up, it's normal. Keep working at =
it,
and remember, these are horses, not motorcycles. They each have their =
own
personality. And that's why we love them.
Have fun, and welcome to pairs,
Rachel in BC
PS Remember to post a picture in the album so we can see your pair.




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:14:52 -0800
From: Peter & Rachel Eldred <preldred@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Oh, do tell! What carriage did you order?

Bob Smith wrote: "I have not tried that with my pair as yet and it may =
be a
while as we just ordered a new pair carriage"



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:19:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Beverly Means <beverlymeans@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

...and you don't think it has something to do with the herd dominance =
thing, that makes one hold back ?
=20
I'm really trying to understand the dynamics of this...
=20
Beverly
Peter & Rachel Eldred <preldred@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Sounds just like my boys. The greener/younger one immediately figured =
out
that if he hangs back, the seasoned horse will do all the work. And the
little sweetie would too if I didn't do something about it.
I have to be on the case of the green one ALL THE TIME. Some days are =
better
than others, and there is overall improvement, but it will probably =
always
be that way to some degree. Don't give up, it's normal. Keep working at =
it,
and remember, these are horses, not motorcycles. They each have their =
own
personality. And that's why we love them.
Have fun, and welcome to pairs,
Rachel in BC
PS Remember to post a picture in the album so we can see your pair.



_________________________________________________________
To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:=20
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------------------------------

From: Keith Yutzy <keith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:20:44 -0600

Welcome to the fun of pairs. One is always trying to take advantage of=20
the other.

I suggest that you make sure your young horse really understands the=20
job of going forward/pulling. You mention that he has only been driven=20
once alone. Ground driving is not the same as driving single and he may=20
need more single work to build his confidence and teach him to work and=20
stay in the bridle. You can continue using him in the pair, but make=20
sure he knows his job!

Linda


On Dec 14, 2004, at 4:10 PM, billbuk@xxxxxxxx wrote:

>
> I have just started driving my two bay minis as a pair. I've found=20
> that the younger one tends to hang back and not stay up in the traces. =

> So the older horse is doing all the work. The older horse is a=20
> seasoned driving horse but the first time he has done pairs driving.=20
> The younger one has only been driven 3 times (once alone, twice as a=20
> pair, but lots of ground driving).  I have been urging the younger one =

> to speed up and he will for a few seconds but then drops back. This=20
> also means that his reins are looser and he doens't stay in the=20
> bridle. Is this a trait of younger horses? What am I doing wrong? The=20
> little guys are a perfect match and we won the Best Miniature Horse=20
> Entry at the Parade of Horses in the Charles Town parade on Sunday. So =

> the boys work well together and look good, too. But I was annoyed that =

> I had to keep after the younger one and it was so evident in some of=20
> the pictures that he was hanging back. Can this team be saved????=20
> HELP!!!! - carol
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Juno Gift Certificates
> Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season.
> http://www.juno.com/give
>
> _________________________________________________________
> To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:
> http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.shtml
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>


------------------------------

From: Keith Yutzy <keith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:30:35 -0600

Not necessarily. My mare Squeak rules the herd, but she always=20
"follows" the other mare in the pair, whether it is Bella or Janey. She=20
doesn't necessarily back off from pulling, but if the other pony wants=20
to be more forward, she lets them do the majority of the work.
Linda
----------
Linda & Keith Yutzy
Lone Star Dartmoors
www.lonestardartmoors.com

On Dec 14, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Beverly Means wrote:

> ...and you don't think it has something to do with the herd dominance=20
> thing, that makes one hold back ?
>
> I'm really trying to understand the dynamics of this...
>
> Beverly


------------------------------

From: "Claudia Novak" <novakc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving - Reply
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:34:09 -0500

Sounds like my story also.  I am also new pairs but Larry Poulin has =
been
training them with me.  While my problem is similar that one is doing =
more
work than the other, the psychology to it is different.  My older more
seasoned alpha mare is letting the younger, energizer bunny do a good
percentage of the work at the walk in particular. They are fine at the =
trot
but at the walk, it is a constant battle to keep the seasoned mare up =
with
the younger mare.  There is no fighting between them just Dawna Lisa
substantially walking faster than the older mare in harness. What is =
odd,
under saddle they walk next to each other happily keeping step to step.  =

        I am thinking that it will just take time for them to work together
in harness as equals.  They are NOT equals in the paddock so it may just
take longer.  Both Larry and I decided NOT to slow down Dawna Lisa but
rather speed up the older mare.  I am lucky because she doesn't get =
grumpy
about it but it is definitely more work for me. =20
Yours,
Claudia Novak
www.tangwyllt.com





------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:39:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Beverly Means <beverlymeans@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Very interesting...
=20
Shucks, there goes another perfectly wonderful theory...
=20
Anyone care to listen to all my child rearing theories?  My son's are =
now 38 and 31 and they grew up and prospered inspite of all my wonderful =
theories...
=20
My advice to my two darling daughters (in-law) ?
=20
Ignore anything I tell you and don't become married to your own theories =
either... <grin>
=20

Keith Yutzy <keith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Not necessarily. My mare Squeak rules the herd, but she always=20
"follows" the other mare in the pair, whether it is Bella or Janey. She=20
doesn't necessarily back off from pulling, but if the other pony wants=20
to be more forward, she lets them do the majority of the work.
Linda
----------
Linda & Keith Yutzy
Lone Star Dartmoors
www.lonestardartmoors.com

On Dec 14, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Beverly Means wrote:

> ...and you don't think it has something to do with the herd dominance=20
> thing, that makes one hold back ?
>
> I'm really trying to understand the dynamics of this...
>
> Beverly

_________________________________________________________
To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:=20
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------------------------------

From: "Claudia Novak" <novakc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving - To Linda
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:43:20 -0500

Good to hear that I am not the only one with an alpha mare that is =
backing
off.  Have you come up with a reasoning for this??? My pair are also =
Native
Ponies being Welsh Cobs.  Maybe they are just too smart for their own =
good?
<VBG>  Addie knows that Dawna Lisa will pick up the slack and just lets =
her
do it.  I guess Addie is just 'smarter' than Dawna Lisa!
Yours,
Claudia Novak
www.tangwyllt.com


Not necessarily. My mare Squeak rules the herd, but she always "follows" =
the
other mare in the pair, whether it is Bella or Janey. She doesn't
necessarily back off from pulling, but if the other pony wants to be =
more
forward, she lets them do the majority of the work.
Linda
----------
Linda & Keith Yutzy
Lone Star Dartmoors
www.lonestardartmoors.com




------------------------------

From: "Claudia Novak" <novakc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving - To Beverly
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:54:00 -0500

LOL!  Hope your child rearing theories were better than mine! I gave up =
on
the fourth one.  She is turning out to be the worst over achiever of the
lot. Now I am onto grandchildren.  THIS is where my theories have ended. =
My
oldest daughter asks me a question and I tell her SHE is on her OWN just
like I was <VBG>.  NO matter what, driving a pair is much easier than
raising children IMHO.
Yours,
Claudia Novak
www.tangwyllt.com


Very interesting...
=20
Shucks, there goes another perfectly wonderful theory...
=20
Anyone care to listen to all my child rearing theories?  My son's are =
now 38
and 31 and they grew up and prospered inspite of all my wonderful
theories...
=20
My advice to my two darling daughters (in-law) ?
=20
Ignore anything I tell you and don't become married to your own theories
either... <grin>
=20




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:19:03 -0800
From: Peter & Rachel Eldred <preldred@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Ditto here. Cody (very dominant but younger) is the lazy one. Tony (the =
one
everyone else pushes around) is the hard worker. He lives to please. Go
figure!

-----Original Message-----
From: drivingpairs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:drivingpairs-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Keith Yutzy
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:31 PM
To: drivingpairs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Not necessarily. My mare Squeak rules the herd, but she always=20
"follows" the other mare in the pair, whether it is Bella or Janey. She=20
doesn't necessarily back off from pulling, but if the other pony wants=20
to be more forward, she lets them do the majority of the work.
Linda
----------
Linda & Keith Yutzy
Lone Star Dartmoors
www.lonestardartmoors.com

On Dec 14, 2004, at 6:19 PM, Beverly Means wrote:

> ...and you don't think it has something to do with the herd dominance=20
> thing, that makes one hold back ?
>
> I'm really trying to understand the dynamics of this...
>
> Beverly

_________________________________________________________
To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:=20
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:33:24 -0700
From: Robert & Linda Smith <Lrsmith@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [drivingpairs] Re: New to pairs driving

Thanks for asking, Rachel. We decided on a Horsepower Concepts Spitfire=20
by Kerry Hofer of Alberta, Canada. It is all aluminum, weighs 185=20
pounds, has aluminum wheels, torsion bar axle suspension, brakes and=20
more. So many things that our old carriage was lacking. The main reason=20
we went with his was the lighter weight.  You can see it at=20
http://www.horsepowerconcepts.com
We are really looking forward to getting it.
Bob and Linda in Arizona

Peter & Rachel Eldred wrote:

>Oh, do tell! What carriage did you order?
>
>Bob Smith wrote: "I have not tried that with my pair as yet and it may =
be a
>while as we just ordered a new pair carriage"
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>To Unsubscribe, change to Digest or Vacation mode go to:=20
>http://www.drivingpairs.com/dpmem.shtml
>`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
>
>
> =20
>


------------------------------

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