Absolutely right Phil!!! Sonar is primarely a tracking and mixing package and the metering system caters to these features. When tracking or mixing down, you're mostly interested in peak metering . In my opinion and in my practice, mastering is better suited to packages such as Sound Forge or Wave Lab where the metering systems are much more elaborate. Jean Visitez mon site / Visit my site at http://www.studiomontebello.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Muir" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD > mastering. You really can check what's happening with the VU metres in > alternative packages. Bryan, I know you work for DD but, check it out and > you will see what people are talking about. > > > > Regards, Phil Muir > Accessibility Training > Telephone: US (615) 713-2021 > UK+44-1747-821-794 > Mobile: UK +44-7968-136-246 > E-mail: > info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > URL: > www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/ <http://www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > Behalf Of Bryan Smart > Sent: 22 October 2009 01:07 > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD > > > Though, if you're recording that instrument in stereo, and one of the > channels clips, you'll need to lower the volume on both channels by the same > amount to preserve the stereo image, right? If you'll be lowering them both > by the same amount, it doesn't seem to matter which one clipped. If either > of them clip, then they both need to be reduced by the same amount. > > If you're metering a stereo submix, and the submix clips, you have the > individual track meters to rely upon. > > Same thing for the master bus. > > Stereo meters might be interesting tools, but I can't imagine any common > scenarios where they're uniquely suited. > > Bryan > > _____ > > From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of luis elorza > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:28 PM > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD > > > i agree entirely Brian, but there is a very common situation where you have > 2 mikes to record a single instrument and if you want to record it to a > single track then you should be able to read both input channels. as every > mike has a different output level. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bryan Smart <mailto:bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:14 PM > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD > > > Maybe I misunderstood what he wants, or maybe you misunderstood. Anyway... > > If you release the lock and hold, then you have a mostly instantaneous > report of the current signal strength. You are right that this isn't the > traditional definition of a VU meter, but you are wrong that a VU meter > measures "loudness". > > The difference between the instantaneous report and a traditional VU meter > is that a VU meter is designed with a lag to eliminate abrupt changes. > Roughly speaking, a VU meter will trend toward the average input over the > last 300Ms or so. Sonar's meters don't respond in this way by default, but > you can easily make them respond with any curves that you'd like by using > the Audio Meter options dialog in the options menu. > > As to "loudness", the concept of loudness is very vague when we're talking > about a recording, since we could be listening to that recording on tiny > headphones or a huge PA. The only factors that matter in gauging the level > of a recording is its relative strength when compared to another signal of > fixed strength, and the dynamic range of the material (difference between > the most quiet and most loud parts of the recording). In digital audio, the > maximum signal strength is 0DB, so the peak of your recording matters, and > you'd use a peak meter for that. However, more important is the dynamic > range of the recording. A narrow dynamic range makes the recording seem > louder, and you'd measure that with an RMS meter. You can switch between > these meter modes in the meter's context menu. > > CakeTalking is not able to report separate meters for the left and right > channel of a stereo track. Instead, you hear a single meter that represents > the summed signal. In most situations, that is what most people care about, > since, if you're establishing level for a stereo signal, you rarely, if > ever, wish to distort the stereo image by independently adjusting gain on > the individual channels. > > Bryan > > > > > > > > > _____ > > From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Studio Montebello > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 5:17 PM > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD > > > Unlocking the peak meter hold doesn't make a peak meter a VU meter! > A peak meter is what it says it measures the peak signal whereas a VU meter > measures the loudness, two different things. > Jean > > Visitez mon site / Visit my site at http://www.studiomontebello.com > <http://www.studiomontebello.com> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bryan Smart <mailto:bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:34 PM > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD > > But it can. If you open the meter context menu and deselect hold and lock > peeks, then you'll have a continuously fluctuating, and mostly useless, vu > meter. > > Not sure why people want a non-peek meter when it isn't possible for any > screen reader to report every value that appears without driving you crazy > with non-stop speech, but this method will let you have the experience of > trying. > > Bryan > > _____ > > From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Phil Muir > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 2:39 PM > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ddots-l] Re: VU meters in DD > > > No it doesn't. > > > > Regards, Phil Muir > Accessibility Training > Telephone: US (615) 713-2021 > UK+44-1747-821-794 > Mobile: UK +44-7968-136-246 > E-mail: > info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > URL: > www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/ <http://www.accessibilitytraining.co.uk/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > Behalf Of Christopher Bartlett > Sent: 21 October 2009 18:37 > To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ddots-l] VU meters in DD > > > > Previous iterations of Dancing Dots would report peak meters but not the > running VU meters. Since Jsonar can do this, does Cake Talking do it now? > > > > Chris Bartlett > > > > PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE! To leave the list, click on the immediately following link: ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and in the Subject line type unsubscribe For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the immediately following link: ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subjectúq or send a message, to ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx and in the Subject line type faq