[ddots-l] Re: Noel's Post On Services

Mike wrote: Hey Phil!

Please could you tell me where I can read/get hold of the 'post' by Noel,
that you and Gord talk of?

Phil replied: here you go!

Gord wrote: Have you set priority to background services in the performance
dialog under the
advanced tab of system in windows control panel?

Phil replied: No, no, no!  Very very bad idea.  In fact, this can make your
system much more
unstable.  I remember trying this on several occasions with various set-ups
and found that system
performance got significantly worse.  I wondered if it was something to do
with my system.  Then, I
came across an article written by Noel Borthwick from Cakewalk.  Noel
recommends not doing this at
all, and having played with this setting here myself and discussed this with
others in the business,
I agree with Noel.

you will find noel's post at the following URL:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1238330

Here's a quote from noel's post.  Noel wrote: "I don't recommend this.
Setting the sheduling to
background for "better performance" with drivers is a myth. At best this is
masking a real problem
with
the driver. All this does is change the quanta for the timeslice assigned by
the windows scheduler.
By making the time slice longer you are potentially setting up a scenario
where the high priority
audio threads in the host application might be denied frequent enough
servicing by the scheduler!
This might actually result in more dropouts or clicks. Here is a quote from
an MSDN article

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308417

.
If you click Programs, the foreground program runs more smoothly and
responds more quickly. If you
want a background task such as a Backup utility to run faster, click
Background services.
. The Programs option allocates short, variable time slices (quanta) to
running programs, and the
Background services option assigns long, fixed quanta.

Contrarary to the SOS article that says "this is the most essential tweak of
all, because ASIO
drivers run as background services in Windows." An ASIO
driver is just another a dll running in the process memory space, its NOT a
background service - at
least not typically. I've never seen an ASIO driver
that installs an actual Windows service (you would see that in the services
view otherwise). Its
just a DLL running a user mode thread to service the audio
device and asio callbacks. The thread is no different from the threads that
run in the host
application itself. If the driver is coded to have the thread
priority set to time critical and its thread is not being blocked by
something else there should be
no need to change this setting. i.e. for the few people
this "helps" its likely that all its doing is masking another more
fundamental problem.
Additionally setting the sheduling to background is allowing ALL other
background tasks on your
computer to get a longer timeslice - i.e some other windows
service or background application is now more likely might to start
interfering with the host task."

Regards, Phil Muir
P J Muir Productions
Music And Audio Production
URL:
http://www.philmuir.com/
Band website:
http://www.demuirs.com/

PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Christer" <
m-christer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <
ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:05 PM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Glitches and pops?

> Hey Phil!
>
> Please could you tell me where I can read/get hold of the 'post' by Noel,
> that you and Gord talk of?
>
> Cheers
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Phil Muir" <
ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <
ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:19 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Glitches and pops?
>
>
>> Gord wrote: Wow!  I went up and looked at Noel's post.  It certainly makes
>> sense,
>> especially the bit about that tweak actually allowing other background
>> services unrelated to daw applications to get longer time slices in task
>> scheduling.
>>
>> Phil replied: agreed!
>>
>>
>> Regards, Phil Muir
>> P J Muir Productions
>> Music And Audio Production
>> URL:
>>
http://www.philmuir.com/
>> Band website:
>>
http://www.demuirs.com/
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Gordon Kent" <
dbmusic@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <
ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:38 PM
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Glitches and pops?
>>
>>
>>> Wow!  I went up and looked at Noel's post.  It certainly makes sense,
>>> especially the bit about that tweak actually allowing other background
>>> services unrelated to daw applications to get longer time slices in task
>>> scheduling.
>>> Gord
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Phil Muir" <
ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <
ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:38 AM
>>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Glitches and pops?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gord wrote: Wow!  Tascam had put up what was considered the definitive
>>>> set of tweaks for
>>>> best audio performance a couple of years ago and that was one of the
>>>> first
>>>> things they said, especially when using asio drivers.
>>>>
>>>> Phil replied: that's a great document, a part from that twique.  I have
>>>> also found that speeding up the menus twique is a good one too!
>>>>
>>>> Gord wrote: I did definitely
>>>> notice an improvement with my laptop, which is a 202ghz dual core, when
>>>> I
>>>> did this recently.  Now lately I've been experimenting with going back
>>>> to
>>>> wdm with my motu, so maybe I should try chaning this setting back.
>>>> Every
>>>> one of the dancing dots systems that I set up had this setting on them,
>>>> as
>>>> well as the paging settings and visual performance settings.
>>>>
>>>> Phil replied: the pageing and visual performance are good twiques to do.
>>>> Noel is a good guy and his article is definitely worth a read.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, if any of you are uing MOTU gear in WDM mode then, you will
>>>> want to change this setting in the wave section of your Aud.ini file.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KsUseInputEvent=1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Phil Muir
>>>> P J Muir Productions
>>>> Music And Audio Production
>>>> URL:
>>>>
http://www.philmuir.com/
>>>> Band website:
>>>>
http://www.demuirs.com/
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Gordon Kent" <
dbmusic@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <
ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:13 AM
>>>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Glitches and pops?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Wow!  Tascam had put up what was considered the definitive set of
>>>>> tweaks for best audio performance a couple of years ago and that was
>>>>> one of the first things they said, especially when using asio drivers.
>>>>> I did definitely notice an improvement with my laptop, which is a
>>>>> 202ghz dual core, when I did this recently.  Now lately I've been
>>>>> experimenting with going back to wdm with my motu, so maybe I should
>>>>> try chaning this setting back.  Every one of the dancing dots systems
>>>>> that I set up had this setting on them, as well as the paging settings
>>>>> and visual performance settings.
>>>>> Gord
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Phil Muir" <
ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: "Dancing Dots E-mail List" <
ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:04 PM
>>>>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: Glitches and pops?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gord wrote: Have you set priority to background services in the
>>>>>> performance dialog under the
>>>>>> advanced tab of system in windows control panel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil replied: No, no, no!  Very very bad idea.  In fact, this can make
>>>>>> your system much more
>>>>>> unstable.  I remember trying this on several occasions with various
>>>>>> set-ups and found that system
>>>>>> performance got significantly worse.  I wondered if it was something
>>>>>> to do with my system. Then, I
>>>>>> came across an article written by Noel Borthwick from Cakewalk.  Noel
>>>>>> recommends not doing this at
>>>>>> all, and having played with this setting here myself and discussed
>>>>>> this with others in the business,
>>>>>> I agree with Noel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you will find noel's post at the following URL:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1238330
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a quote from noel's post.  Noel wrote: "I don't recommend this.
>>>>>> Setting the sheduling to background for "better performance" with
>>>>>> drivers is a myth. At best this is masking a real problem with
>>>>>> the driver. All this does is change the quanta for the timeslice
>>>>>> assigned by the windows scheduler. By making the time slice longer you
>>>>>> are potentially setting up a scenario where the high priority audio
>>>>>> threads in the host application might be denied frequent enough
>>>>>> servicing by the scheduler! This might actually result in more
>>>>>> dropouts or clicks. Here is a quote from an MSDN article
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308417
>>>>>>
>>>>>> . If you click Programs, the foreground program runs more smoothly and
>>>>>> responds more quickly. If you want a background task such as a Backup
>>>>>> utility to run faster, click Background services.
>>>>>> . The Programs option allocates short, variable time slices (quanta)
>>>>>> to running programs, and the Background services option assigns long,
>>>>>> fixed quanta.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Contrarary to the SOS article that says "this is the most essential
>>>>>> tweak of all, because ASIO drivers run as background services in
>>>>>> Windows." An ASIO
>>>>>> driver is just another a dll running in the process memory space, its
>>>>>> NOT a background service - at least not typically. I've never seen an
>>>>>> ASIO driver
>>>>>> that installs an actual Windows service (you would see that in the
>>>>>> services view otherwise). Its just a DLL running a user mode thread to
>>>>>> service the audio
>>>>>> device and asio callbacks. The thread is no different from the threads
>>>>>> that run in the host application itself. If the driver is coded to
>>>>>> have the thread
>>>>>> priority set to time critical and its thread is not being blocked by
>>>>>> something else there should be no need to change this setting. i.e.
>>>>>> for the few people
>>>>>> this "helps" its likely that all its doing is masking another more
>>>>>> fundamental problem.
>>>>>> Additionally setting the sheduling to background is allowing ALL other
>>>>>> background tasks on your computer to get a longer timeslice - i.e some
>>>>>> other windows
>>>>>> service or background application is now more likely might to start
>>>>>> interfering with the host task."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards, Phil Muir
>>>>>> P J Muir Productions
>>>>>> Music And Audio Production
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>
http://www.philmuir.com/
>>>>>> Band website:
>>>>>>
http://www.demuirs.com/ 


PLEASE READ THIS FOOTER AT LEAST ONCE!
To leave the list, click on the immediately following link:
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If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
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