[ddots-l] Re: I/O buffer size and latency

You're probably in over my head from now on since I don't use acoustic
instruments in my rig.
K.

-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Phil Halton
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:33 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: I/O buffer size and latency


Ok kevin,

the processor is a intel core 2 duo running at 2ghz.  the hd is a 7200 rpm.
The problem I am having is:

when I lower the latency slider for my FA66 audio interface (asio drivers),
I begin to get dropouts.

I am recording at 24 bits 44.1khz, and have the asio buffer set  to default
settings (normal buffer size and latency slider at 50% ).

When I drop latency slider down to 25%, I begin to get glyches in the
audio--not full dropouts, but stutters and gaps type stuff.

At this setting, latency is quite low (I can hear a minimal lag between
picking a note on my instrument(via mic) and hearing it back through input
echo.

But, naturally I want absolutely no lag between picking and echoing(I
probably ask too much).

I'm just trying to maximize latency for recording acoustic instruments, and
so, I thought maybe the I/O buffer setting might help me squeeze out a
little more latency.


Am I asking too much of software sequencers?  Seriously, am I at the limit
of what can be expected from sonar's input echo?  Its functional -- which is

more than it ever was with my last system, and I can record in real time
with very little lag.  Should I just knock it off and be happy with what I
have?

Finally, If I were to record at 16 bits instead of 24, would that open up
more bandwidth(50% less data with 16 bits compared to 24bits)  Since there
would be 50% less data to process I would think it should allow for quicker
response and lower latency settings in the asio buffers.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin L. Gibbs" <kevjazz@xxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:02 AM
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: I/O buffer size and latency


> 64 is mighty tight.  How fast was the processor?  What sort of
> failures do you get?  Do you get dropouts?  If you do, raise the
> buffer size in Options Audio.
> K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of Phil Halton
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:10 PM
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: I/O buffer size and latency
>
>
> So its a guessing game between disk I/O buffer size and soundcard
> driver buffer sizes as to which might cause problems .
>
> Do you think a intel core 2 duo processor with a 7200 rpm HD and 2gb
> ram would benefit from a I/O buffer of 64KB rather than 128?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin L. Gibbs" <kevjazz@xxxxxxx>
> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:21 PM
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: I/O buffer size and latency
>
>
>> The lower the buffer number, the less the latancy.  However, if your
>> computer can't cut it, the more dropouts you'll have.  If you have a
>> buffer size of, say, 1024, it will be a week between the time you
>> press a key and the time the note sounds. Okay?
>> Kevin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Phil Halton
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:13 PM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: I/O buffer size and latency
>>
>>
>> Thanks Luis,
>>
>> the fa66 has a faceplate monitor mix knob where I can hear
>> exclusively the output from either the computer, or the inputs, or a
>> mix of both. I kind of
>>
>> like using sonar's input echo because I can wet the signal with
>> reverb or whatever, and hear it exclusively with only a barely
>> noticeable delay by eliminating the dry signal from the mix.  But
>> then, I guess I'm just trying to push the limits of this machine and
>> find out what it can do instead of accepting inherant limitations of
>> computer digital audio.  I don't know if what I'm after (zero latency
>> input echo monitoring ), is even possible with the current state of
>> computers and software sequencers.  So, I might be chasing after
>> rainbows here--so to speak.
>>
>>
>> what you say about I/o buffer size of 64 interests me.  Can you tell
>> me why
>> it might be better than 128?  I like to understand these things from the
>> bottom up if possible--then I can figure things out for myself once I get
>> the concept.  I know this buffer setting is for maximizing disk
>> throughput,
>> but the numbers don't have any rhyme or reason behind them.  If you know
>> the
>>
>> why of it, please let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Luis Elorza" <luiselorza@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:37 PM
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: I/O buffer size and latency
>>
>>
>>>i recommend you use 64 because it will give you enough power to
>>>record a huge project, and i also recommend instead of using input
>>>monitor in your sonar tracks, try using an input monitor in your
>>>soundcard, most have this function that is a direct dry signal routed
>>>from your inputs to your outputs. and this way you can have whatever
>>>latency setting in sonar.  any ways you can notice that even at
>>>minimum latency your monitoring will  sound as a doubler and to me
>>>it's very anoying.  this way you only need low latency  when playing
>>>soft synths.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Phil Halton" <philhalt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: "ddots-l" <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 2:06 PM
>>> Subject: [ddots-l] I/O buffer size and latency
>>>
>>>
>>>> my sonar6 producer installation on an ADK laptop is set to a I/O
>>>> buffer size of 128(advanced page of audio options).  The sonar
>>>> default is (according to the help files) 64.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using the internal system drive for audio data(7200 rpm drive).
>>>> I'm wondering what the best setting for the I/O buffer size would
>>>> be to maximize latency and minimize dropouts.  How does this
>>>> variable affect disk throughput, and with this kind of system
>>>> drive, what might be a better setting than 128KB?
>>>>
>>>> Currently, I can record at 24 bits with minimally perceptable
>>>> latency with input echo on.  Naturally, I'm trying for zero latency
>>>> while recording audio, but I start getting dropouts when I start
>>>> cutting the latency slider any further than 50% for the Edirol
>>>> FA66(ASIO).  Wouldn't recording at 16 bits improve latency(50%less
>>>> data throughput involved with 16bits from 24bits).
>>>>
>>>> I like the headroom and quality that comes from 24bits, but I want
>>>> that zero latency for obvious reasons.  That's why I'm considering
>>>> changing the disk I/O buffer size--it seems to be the only variable
>>>> left that might improve performance. .
>>>>
>>>>
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