This all started because I said I wasn't convinced that HSC was necessarily the best solution for accessing complex synths like GPO, EWQL etc, for the reasons you stated yourself in your last message, namely that some considerable understanding of Jaws, software architecture and various other things is quite important if you want to get passed the basics.
Please everyone, do not get me wrong, I admire the work of People Like Phil, David and Vic, without their brilliant contributions to the field of accessible music tech, we'd all be nowhere by now. And Dan, of course I am aware that entry-level synths like GPO are nothing compared to say, a full Vienna rig running on, I donno, 10 PC's, every movie score writer's dream, but its certainly good enough for smaller projects like scoring for computer games for example, or TV ads.
The Vienna rig option is not financially viable for most of us sadly, although I fully intend to own one soon! LOL! Well hey! I just finished my first BBC commission so yeah baby, I'll be there by next week! Hahaha!.
The point is, we currently have no access what so ever to a decent orchestral or jazz/big band package, and please don't anyone think I've forgotten about Edirol Orchestral, I haven't, I just wouldn't call it decent! LOL! We do however, have access to all kinds of other synths, DMP, B4, Slayer, Hypersonic, Virtual Guitarist, bassist and Drummer, Trilogy, DKFH, Session Drummer II and so on which is wonderful.
I do feel though, that a decent Orchestral solution is needed. Currently I am playing with NI Kore and looking at the possibilities it offers VI musos because of the hardware control device which makes Kore a unique system. Not only does it allow you to scroll through all Kore enabled instruments on your computer, but it also allows you to audition each instrument before loading it. There are also 8 assignable pots which can be set to control any of a given sound's functions.
Kore is multi-tymbrol, and its performance files and instrument attribute files are all sharable!
Kore can potentially work with any NI instrument or third party synth using the NI format, although third party patches have to be opened in Kore, have their Kore database attributes set, then resaved as Kore instruments. This means that if we can have access to Kore, the possibilities for us as musicians are endless.
All I was saying, way back at the beginning of this discussion, is that I think the Kore route might be more successful in this case that's all.
By the way Dan, I agree with you about EWQL Silver and even Gold, but the Platinum version is quality.
Matt----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Rugman" <danrugman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:27 PM Subject: [ddots-l] Re: How accessible is the Garritan Personal Orchestra? Mat, There are several things you need to realise. Firstly, making complex applications like this accessible needs a lot of experience in a lot of different areas. You need a thorough understanding of the application (which is not always easy to get if you can't see it) and a good practical knowledge of the subject which the software is use for. Noone would suggest that a green groser should try to master software for tracking satalites. Secondly, you have to know how blind people need information to be presented to them (which a lot of sighted developers don't have). On top of this, you need to have an understanding of Jaws. Precisely how much will depend on the nature of the beast you're trying to access. What this means is that there are in fact very few people in the world who are actively making music technology accessible, I can think of about ten and thats stretching it. You said that GPO and the EastWest libraries are absolutely critical. This is an extremely subjective point of view and although I understand that there are people out there who want to use them, it might help for you to hear a different point of view. The GPO is an entry level sample library with a relatively small number of instruments, some of which are incomplete. The bassoon is half an octave too short, and the violas are missing an entire octave. The percussion library is barely addaquite, and in some cases synthosized, and the samples are not as easy to play as the publicity claims. This is hardly surprising though, when you think about the price of £120 and the fact that it only occupies 2GB of memory. As far as the EastWest libraries are concerned, I've never liked the sound. The instruments are thin and too mechanical and the last time I checked, several playing techniques were missing, such as harmonics, although this may have been amended by now. Lets just stop for a minute and look at some of the programs that the people on this list, Midi Mag and the JSonar list would consider to be absolutely critical: Sibelius, Finale, Lime, Logic, CUBASE, Sonar, ProTools, SADiE, Nuendo, Adobi Audition, GiggerSampler, Reason Ableton Live, Garage Band, Secoia, Reaper, WavLab, GoldWave, Sound Forge, Mac5, Exs24, Halion, VSampler, Kontakt, ABSYNTH, Virus T, Dimension Pro, GPO, EastWest, MotuOrchestral, Real Guitar, ... and the 2000 other vertual instruments, ...and the 2000 other plugins Even if we took all of the purely Mac based software off the list, it would still be staggeringly large, and those of us who are actively scripting and spotting would never get through it all. So how do we decide which software gets done first? The bottom line is that you can't please all of the people all of the time and what might seem like a relatively simple apptlication to script could turn into a two month campaign in no time at all. Please remember that a lot of the work that has been done has been done in peoples own time, for free, and that there is a big difference between making something accessible enough to meet you're own personal needs, and making it work as a solution which can be distributed to everyone else. The interface that users interact with needs careful thinking about and then there's the not insubstantial business of writing help files. I'm sorry if this all sounds a bit agressive, but you need to remember that we all want different things, and everyone of them takes up somebodies time. Dan----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Brown" <matthew_brown@xxxxxxx>
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:45 AM Subject: [ddots-l] Re: How accessible is the Garritan Personal Orchestra?
The thing I don't understand is if it's so easy, why are people asking if Garriton Personal Orchestra or EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, or anything else running NI kontakt or Kompakt etc are accessible or not? I can't believe no one has spotted these absolutely critical production tools up by now!----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Brown" <matthew_brown@xxxxxxx>I know that sighted help for advanced stuff is probably necessary, but out of this entire community not one person has said, hey! There are HSC files for GPO, Garriton Jazz and Big Band, Sonivox Broadway Big Band, Muse, Mirislev Symphonic Orchestra, Giga etc.I can't believe no one has spotted up GPO at least!Is there an audio tutorial or demonstration of someone using HSC without sighted assistance spotting up something like a NI instrument? If there is I'd surely love to hear it!Matt----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Muir" <ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [ddots-l] Re: How accessible is the Garritan Personal Orchestra?Mat wrote: Well I shall stand corrected then, but when I took a look at the info puttogether on HSC, it said, and I paraphrase, "Steep learning curve". Phil replied: where does it say that? I run the: www.hotspotclicker.org/ site and couldn't find that.Mat wrote: The implication was that there was a lot to it and in order to get the most out of it it would be necessary to take some considerable time to learn howto use it.Phil replied: depends what your doing. If you just want to use already created sets then, there isn't much to learn at all. if you want to do basic programming with it then, you just need to know a little about what kind of Windows to use. For example, in most situations, when using the HSC wizard set-up for a button, it's best to use "top Window Relative coordinates." This particular setting seems to work best across systems.Mat wrote: Are you saying I can just install and go? Just like that? No learning curveat all? Literally plug and play?Phil replied, you would just need to install HSC then, download HSC sets that have already been created and put them into the appropriate folder. Then, all you have to do is run the HSC import Wizard. and you will be good to go.HSC has a modifier key, Alt+control+Shift. For example, in order to import HSC sets, you would pres the key combination, Alt+Control+Shift+F1 twice quickly and choose import from the list box. Why don't you install it and pull down all of the HSC sets you require for Sonar 6 from "The HotSpot Sets Page." on:www.hotspotclicker.org/All information about where to place and how to import HSC sets is on that page. If you need help with this, feel free to ether give me a call on Skype or by phone and I will be happy to talk you through this.Regards, Phil Muir P J Muir Productions Music And Audio Production URL: www.philmuir.com/ Band website: www.steelstringmusic.co.uk/ Band my Space Site: www.myspace.com/steelstringmusic ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]** or send a message, to ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq-- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30 - Release Date: 23/09/2007 00:00** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]** or send a message, to ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:45 AM Subject: [ddots-l] Re: How accessible is the Garritan Personal Orchestra?
The thing I don't understand is if it's so easy, why are people asking if Garriton Personal Orchestra or EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, or anything else running NI kontakt or Kompakt etc are accessible or not? I can't believe no one has spotted these absolutely critical production tools up by now!I know that sighted help for advanced stuff is probably necessary, but out of this entire community not one person has said, hey! There are HSC files for GPO, Garriton Jazz and Big Band, Sonivox Broadway Big Band, Muse, Mirislev Symphonic Orchestra, Giga etc.I can't believe no one has spotted up GPO at least!Is there an audio tutorial or demonstration of someone using HSC without sighted assistance spotting up something like a NI instrument? If there is I'd surely love to hear it!Matt----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Muir" <ddots@xxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [ddots-l] Re: How accessible is the Garritan Personal Orchestra?Mat wrote: Well I shall stand corrected then, but when I took a look at the info puttogether on HSC, it said, and I paraphrase, "Steep learning curve". Phil replied: where does it say that? I run the: www.hotspotclicker.org/ site and couldn't find that.Mat wrote: The implication was that there was a lot to it and in order to get the most out of it it would be necessary to take some considerable time to learn howto use it.Phil replied: depends what your doing. If you just want to use already created sets then, there isn't much to learn at all. if you want to do basic programming with it then, you just need to know a little about what kind of Windows to use. For example, in most situations, when using the HSC wizard set-up for a button, it's best to use "top Window Relative coordinates." This particular setting seems to work best across systems.Mat wrote: Are you saying I can just install and go? Just like that? No learning curveat all? Literally plug and play?Phil replied, you would just need to install HSC then, download HSC sets that have already been created and put them into the appropriate folder. Then, all you have to do is run the HSC import Wizard. and you will be good to go.HSC has a modifier key, Alt+control+Shift. For example, in order to import HSC sets, you would pres the key combination, Alt+Control+Shift+F1 twice quickly and choose import from the list box. Why don't you install it and pull down all of the HSC sets you require for Sonar 6 from "The HotSpot Sets Page." on:www.hotspotclicker.org/All information about where to place and how to import HSC sets is on that page. If you need help with this, feel free to ether give me a call on Skype or by phone and I will be happy to talk you through this.Regards, Phil Muir P J Muir Productions Music And Audio Production URL: www.philmuir.com/ Band website: www.steelstringmusic.co.uk/ Band my Space Site: www.myspace.com/steelstringmusic ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]** or send a message, to ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq-- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30 - Release Date: 23/09/2007 00:00** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]** or send a message, to ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] ** or send a message, to ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30 - Release Date: 23/09/2007 00:00
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ** and in the Subject line type ** unsubscribe ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the ** immediately-following link:- ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]** or send a message, to ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
