[brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
- From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 09:28:29 -0500
honestly where on earth are you getting all this from? How many times do I need
to explain to you I never said the game wasn't playable? Oh and to clear some
things up, I never told Brandon my sister beat anything, I said we were both
playing. as in, taking turns throughout the story. Brandon also told me you two
were playing together as well. Isn't that true? you say I told people not to
buy this game? Uh... when? I don't recall saying anything that could be
interpreted as "don't buy this game guys, it's not playable". I clearly stated
the game would be tough for the average blind gamer to get through, not
impossible. I'm not new to gaming guys. I still own an original snes, and I
frequently play games like Super Mario 3 and donkey kong. I never actually beat
SMB3, but I was pretty competent for many of the levels. If I haven't given up
on such old games, what makes you think I'd give up on heavy rain simply
because it's tough? Brandon, your input is appreciated. you managed to come off
non-accusatory, unlike Misty. either you took some time to think it through and
write the email, or you're just good at not sounding that way. I certainly
understand where you're coming from in regards to your gaming methods. I always
use totally bizarre strategies similar to the one you mentioned to get through
games, and I always do things like time the CPU and take advantage of its
weakness. AI's usually follow patterns in games ----- that could easily be
exploited if one pays attention. Super Mario world is a game everyone here
should be familiar with so I'll discuss that. one thing I usually did which
would probably be frowned upon by most sighted gamers was with yoshi, I'd
usually run full speed and run into enemies. they'd take him away but since I
was going full speed, I'd get him back with in a second or so. once the
placement of pits was memorized, many levels became a lot easier using this
strategy, especially if the level contained many enemies to make my job easier.
banging my head into solid objects was also a strategy of mine that helped a
lot, especially in water levels, although it probably gave mario many headaches
hehe. in comparroson to all that guesswork, heavy rain is a piece of cake.
Misty, did you ever stop to consider this whole thing probably came about due
to email miscomunication? instead of asking if this was so, you started off
this whole unnecessary arguement.
Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:53 AM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
Assumption - According to dictionary.com - The act of taking for granted or
supposing.
Now tell me what am I supposing? I just outright told you that I'm going off
what you've said. I know you through Jesse Yohandy, you speak to my own fiance
quite frequently and you act like I'm some stranger off the street who is new
to this list. You're never gonna meet me either. What does that have to do
with anything? I didn't say you're happy or not about heavy rain I said you're
complaining. Which you are and you're trying to turn others off to it and
covering it up with well if people don't think it's playable I don't want the
backlash. Um Yohandy, the majority of what I said about the blind gamer
mindset was a generalization one I feel you're a part of but don't think I was
just singling you out. In fact I said I wasn't singling you out. So ya know
what until you read my emails without getting all upset and typing first you're
making yourself look silly. I started this little chat with you earlier in the
evening.. What the hell would I have to do at 9pm? I'm so sorry that your
life is so delluded that you think that you can try to attack me with my saying
I have a busy schedule so I can't help out with a FAQ for heavy rain just
because you know you don't have a leg to stand on here. I'm sorry that you
felt the need to blab on about your accomplishments to try to prove to me
you're a gamer. I'm so sorry that you lack the self confidence in yourself
that you can't even have a conversation with someone that you can't even see
the other side of it you just have to defend yourself when really there's no
defense at all. You told people to not buy this game. You told them that it
is not playable and Brandon told me that you had your sister play it for you.
So there ya go that's where I got my info. Heavy Rain is FAILPROOF! You cannot
be stuck in this game. All you have to do is wander around. If you fuck it up
you still get to the end. All of these things blind gamers are familiar with
and here you are not even thinking about that. Just because you say my
assumptions are random doesn't mean it's true. You have not come back with one
perfect example as to why this game is not playable and ya know what, you won't
either. I believe the crime scene is even perfectly playable because when you
put the glasses on you see through the glasses it's no longer a third person
view it becomes a first person and you scan everything in your sight because
you're wearing the glasses. It's just a matter of wandering around and finding
stuff which I would think considering the way blind people game they should be
used to. Brandon did scan something in that crime scene he found one of the
items that wasn't relevant to the case but he did find it. Brandon just said
himself no one else that has played that game seems to realize how much
environmental audio there is in that game and how much it can help you. So
stop attacking me personally and start giving me some facts. Everything I've
said is relevant. The gaming mindset of the blind is seriously an issue here.
There are people willing to give this a serious go and you who have clearly not
tried are trying to stop them, detur them, supposedly warn them. It's
unfounded..you're the one assuming the game isn't playable.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, March 07, 2010 12:30 am
To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
and you continue with your assumptions. you keep saying I think this and I
think that. I don't think anything! you're the one assuming all this stuff from
a random internet stranger you will never meet. how would you know if I'm
letting people beat the games for me? you came over to my house and checked
that out? I don't think so! you say I'm not happy about heavy rain? wrong
again. I really could care less what you think my gaming accomplishments are, I
know what I've done and haven't done. I won't even bother discussing it here
though. in fact I don't even know why I bother writing this email. you strike
me as one of these people that are stubborn to the last, and will do anything
to try and prove their point, even if their point is completely off. Your
random assumptions aren't helping at all, they're just making me quite annoyed.
Let's see... you're gonna take some time off your extremely busy schedule to
reply with more accusations?
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:19 PM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
You're discouraging people and your last email was basically telling
people outright not to try. You may not have said "Don't try this." but you
might as well have. You think it's a piece of cake gaming for us sighted
people? It's not and that's the whole point of gaming because if it was easy
we wouldn't do it and that's that simple. There are games I've set asside
because I've tried several times and have been unable to defeat a certain part
of that game. Does that mean I'm not gonna go back? No. It means I'm taking a
break. I have yet to beat Professor Quirell in the first Harry Potter game.
I'm at the end of the game am I gonna give up because it's supposedly beyond my
means when I've tried a handful of times? No. Go ahead and state every
accomplishment you'e done Yohandy but with your attitude to me you are not a
gamer. Gamers go outside their saftey boxes. The fact of the matter is any
blind person playing a game should know already they're not gonna easily beat
it. They shouldn't be looking for games that are easy to beat. That's
humilliating and degrading about as much as when patrick was on this list
saying shit about games when he never plays a game beyond the setting of easy.
You talk about getting people's hopes up? You just sat here and said indirectly
that the blind community is looking for easy games. This game is failproof.
It's not like the door to the mall moves people would find it eventually just
like they end up finding the shower in the first level. Just like you go to
find bad guys in any rpg game you guys do play. You wander around till you
freaking find it. You guys rant and rave about games not being playable at all
and then here you have one that is and you're still not happy! Why? Because it
doesn't have spoken dialogue in menus? Because you don't know what buttons to
press in certain situations? Hey ya know what? They don't give us the answers
outright to certain puzzles in certain games. We sit there and stare at it or
wander around just like you guys would and what do we do? We figure it the Hell
out. If everything were given to you or me or anyone else, if it was all
spelled out what would the fun be? Furthermore you just played the demo you
got through it and still deemed it supposedly unplayable. So that proves
something right there. You gave up and let someone else play it for you.
Those people on game anyone don't show when they get stuck for months because
that would be humiliating and boring for the people watching. You guys see
what you want to see. It doesn't matter when you pre ordered it Yohandy,
you're letting someone else play the damn game for you. How do you know what
button combos you'd figure out? How do you know which ones you'd need to
learn? You're making a lot of assumptions based on what you've HEARD not PLAYED
and there's a huge difference there. People don't have to buy these games like
I said before. If they're smart they'll rent them. I'm not gonna ask anyone
anything. But Brandon can say his piece here if he wishes it is his list. He
and I have been discussing it. I'm saying what I am based on your behaviour on
this list. You're the one giving assumptions to people. I'm a player who has
played the game a bit of the way in and you know what I missed one button on
the button combo to the sketch on the first level and I missed making Shawn
dinner, I also didn't find his teddy bear but I'm gonna play it out because
that's what I did and any blind gamer that attempts to tackle this game should
do that too. That's what the developer wanted was people to play it out and
not reload in an attempt to play it perfectly. To do what they can do.
I hate this general logic you people have. I'm in the same boat as you
guys because I'm a female gamer. I'm not a target audience and in games I have
to deal with crap I sometimes find tasteless. As I said before there are some
games that are beyond my reaction speed too. So because I have a slow reaction
speed by your logic it's unplayable for me so I shouldn't play. Listen to
yourself and what you've said. Go back and read your emails. You don't have
to say things directly but it's there. More than just you do it. If I lost my
sight tomorrow I would never take on that mentality. It's a defeatist
mentality. I have always kept my eyes open for games I felt Brandon could
play. I'm right almost all of the time. Matter of fact I don't think there's
one I've been wrong about yet. So sorry if I have a higher idea of your
abilities than you do people. Should I be apologizing for that? I don't think
so but there ya go it's in print if you want it. Don't come back at me and
tell me I don't know what I'm talking about either. I have a very good gift
for putting myself in other people's shoes and without my glasses I am legally
blind. I would not be able to see to game very well at all either. I can't
even find my glasses if they fall on my floor because it's a dark color. I've
had to use a screen reader at points too when I haven't had my glasses or after
eye doctor appointments. So I'm not an outsider looking in..I'm someone
straddling the line.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 9:14 pm
To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Uh, I never said not to try. you accused me of a few things I never
even hinted at let alone said. I actually consider myself a pretty hardcore
gamer. I've gotten MK vs DC and SF 4 platinums, and I'm real close to getting
platinums on rock band 2 and lego rock band. I would never tell people to give
up on a game, because I don't do it myself. In fact I get a thrill if I do
something I consider insane and succeed. I was just pointing out the facts, and
letting people know that it wouldn't be easy. I don't want people buying heavy
rain thinking oh I'm gonna get this game, and easily beat it. people won't
easily complete this game, and I'm not gonna claim otherwise and get people's
hopes up, and if they happen to suck at it I'll be blamed for the purchase.
it'll take lots of work and motivation. do you think I'd preorder the game a
month in advanced and have it delivered on release day if I was a person who
gave up on things? course not. I knew exactly what I was getting into. already
someone has purchased the game and hasn't played it much, and I sorta feel
responsible for letting them know about HR and having them spend money on it
cause I couldn't shut up about the game. I've spoken to Brandon on MSN
previously. ask him if he thinks I'm the type of gamer to give up on games. You
really shouldn't assume things so quickly, it's rather insulting.
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:21 PM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
But I still did it. You're telling people not to even try. There's
a kazillion people there anybody would be blind it's a situation where you're
looking for a needle in a haystack. All you have to do is find the doors..
Until you do nothing happens Yohandy. It's not like he wanders farther and
farther. He's across the street from the mall. You know when you hit the
escalator that makes it's own sound. See this is the problem I have. You guys
are so frustrated with games not being playable that you don't even try. You
just say oh you have to be sighted so I can't do this. Is this how you look at
life? Try.. Seriously try. Don't try once and give up, try and try again. We
sighted people if we can't do something the first time because it's beyond our
range of ability we keep trying. I'm not very good with button combos but I'll
be damned if I let that stop me. I wasn't very good at shooters to the point I
was afraid to play around anyone else because I'd be laughed at. My aim was
just to put it simply shit. But now I'm really good at them. I can't tell you
guys what to do but I think your outlook is very dismal and depressing. Do you
guys realize how many gamer achievements and trophies are just based on pure
dumb luck? A certain situation presenting itself and you just so happen to be
in the right place at the right time? Brandon got a trophy today in mlb for
hitting a home run out in left feild into the rocks at aneheim. He told me he
didn't think he could beat krea in KOTOR 2 but I told him just try it. You
guys don't have to buy any of these games. There's gamefly and there's
blockbuster and other rental places. Go rent them. If you feel after you've
tried the hardest you can and exhausted all options that you can't play it then
fine. But if you just try a handful of times and say I can't do this because
i'm blind, that's not the spirit of any gamer I know. I guess by using your
logic i shouldn't play guitar hero on expert or god of war because i'm not very
good at fast response. I shouldn't play call of duty because i suck at war
games where i have to strategize and work in stealth. I'm an in your face
gamer. I love melee combat in left 4 dead but i still play every single one of
the games I mentioned.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 3:04 pm
To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Misty, you just proved my point. if finding Jason was tough for
you, imagine for a totally blind person? like you said there are a whole mess
of people in that mall. we'll just end up walking around endlessly and he'll
desperately keep searching till we get frustrated and turn off the game or
happen to find him randomly. in this situation, the game will not continue even
if you walk around all day. Jason will just patiently wait for you to find him
before the game triggers the next scene. there are many sections like this
where time won't pass unless you do what the game demands you do. A walkthrough
for this game wouldn't be particularly hard to make, except for writing up
those walking parts. trials will be pretty tough as well. rest is just
basically lists of possible options. it'll be time consuming though!
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:15 PM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
Actually I played most of the mall scene "blind" for about the
first like 5 minutes. I didn't hear the dialogue about the balloon so I was
trying to find a kid in that sea of people it was kinda freaky. Then Brandon
mentioned the balloon and I was like oh! Kid with a balloon kid with a balloon
then I found that kid that wasn't him! I was like omg! Now chelle stayed with
him somehow it was kinda cool. And yes while if you don't get a button press
right it may affect the game later on but it does not mean that the blind
cannot play this game. Now as I said before to see all the paths the game has
to offer you'd need a FAQ. But this isn't the normal situation where you guys
will get stuck and the game will not progress. That is generally what you guys
call a game that's unplayable. So to answer people's questions about it, yes
this game is playable. And I clarified what I meant by it in previous emails.
You CAN play the game independantly.. you can get to the end of it
independantly. Can you unlock all the options to the game independantly? No
but is that better than not being able to play it at all? I'd say yeah but
then again I'm not very far in the game.
I also tend to be a bit crazy when it comes to games LOL! I've
had Brandon do some things he thought was impossible for him to do. Like
defeat Krea in Knights of The Old Republic 2. He defeated Bohan for me in
Heavenly Sword and he's been opening doors for me in Heavy Rain because I just
can't seem to get it right. I've even had Brandon play Left 4 Dead and while
he didn't advance in the level too far, he did not die. That's something right
there! At least I thought it was cool. Also as I said before if I have time to
I'd be willing to help out with the FAQ but it would take me a long time as my
time is limited. Probably would release it by level maybe on Brandon's site.
I don't know yet. Right now I can't say I can do it. So I wanna wait and see
if someone else does it first. It would be better to have someone release it
all at once for you than piece by piece like I would have to when time allowed.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't
do
From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 1:49 pm
To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Misty,
Your point is a good one for the most part, but the game won't
continue in certain situations. for instance the mall scene is one of many
where you need to walk around to find what you need to find. lol trying to not
spoil things is hard work. haha. anyway if you just choose to stand there,
nothing will happen. if it's a button sequence you're dealing with and you
press nothing, an undesirable result will most likely occur that you'll end up
regretting later on. if you press a wrong button, it'll have the same
consequences. this game isn't made in such a way that you can just guess what
to do, you have to know what you're doing. I appreciate that you're trying to
help, but we gotta face facts. we'd all love to play this game independently,
but unless a good faq comes out, I doubt we'll be too successful by simply
guessing. I'm just grateful I have people here that can help. not everyone does.
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and
can't do
Yep that's what I'm saying. You guys have to realize that
failure with this game isn't really failure. It doesn't stop you from seeing
the rest of the game. It continues on even if people die or you make a "wrong"
choice. There really is no right or wrong in this game. That's the whole idea
behind it. So generally you guys say an unplayable game is one that you get
stuck on and cannot advance any further due to something you have to see to
continue. If you can't then you can't continue on in the game and you'll
never see the end. With heavy rain you will see an ending regardless of what
you do. You will get through the game.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and
can't do
From: Søren_Jensen <slj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 9:19 am
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Okay. So you're saying this game is playable if you have a
great walkthrough and if you take your time to figure it all out? I don't have
any people who can help me accept for one of my friends who love games, but
he's not here all the time.
Best regards
Søren Jensen
Mail & MSN:
slj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Website:
http://www.coolfortheblind.dk/
Den Mar 5, 2010 kl. 8:00 PM skrev misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
Okay let me clarify here. This game is not unplayable
it's not beyond the realm of being playable for you guys. If you find a FAQ
with all the button combos they do not change. As for the timings you would
have to figure those out on your own as per usual with these things. It's not
like you'll be stuck people. This game plays on regardless of what happens you
will never be stuck. You will need help but I don't think it goes beyond
anything other than finding an FAQ. If a guy can get help playing legend of
zelda which is way harder than the stuff you have to do in heavy rain, i would
say this would be a cakewalk. I've been helping brandon play parts of heavy
rain I've even failed at parts in heavy rain such as the drawing of the sketch
in the first chapter. Some doors I can't open so I have brandon do it for me.
Come on people be open minded and actually try here. Make an effort.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can
and can't do
From: Michael Breedlove <stirlock@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, March 05, 2010 10:26 am
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is why I don't buy too many games like this. I
don't have someone
around to help me all the time, so there's no point.
Plus, I pretty
much told you that this wasn't very playable on your
own. Buyer
beware.
On 3/5/10, Orin <orin8722@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> After I get home from Disney, I really want to play
this game, and it looks
> like the only way I'm gonna do that is with myself,
since my brother got so
> disinterested quickly.
>
> I'd really hate to return it, or not play it at all,
but the fact is that
> watching it on Youtube you don't see the entire
thing; you see a players
> game and if I were to play it it might be totally
different.
>
> Also, from what it seems, this game has nice and easy
trophies. As in, just
> playing it will net you some trophies. I've watched
both the GameAnyone
> walkthrough and a Youtube walkthrough. The outcomes
were the same, but the
> characters doing certain things were different.
>
> Well, I certainly won't be buying a game again until
I'm sure my brother
> will play it. At least a game like this. I think
eventually we'd be able to
> do it but here's a problem we run into in the prolog.
>
> You can walk around the house nude or at least
upstairs and the bathroom. In
> your room, when you're standing at your dresser or
whatever to get drest, is
> that when the first button prompts come up? My
brother did actually manage
> to get this far for me, and he didn't really tell me
anything so I was
> unsure. Where he stopped and never did pick it up
again, and where it gets
> good, is when Jason goes to the mall. I did manage to
get through this
> scene, however my brother probably would've gotten
through it a lot quicker.
> I also got through the fight with Troy, however I
didn't get the trophy for
> it.
>
> And now I'm at the crime scene. And I'm kinda stuck
here.
>
> I doubt anyone has any tips on where to go? Hmm.
Hopefully I can get my
> brother playing somehow. I'd hate to return a kickass
game just because I
> couldn't get help for it.
>
>
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