[brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
- From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 00:30:00 -0500
and you continue with your assumptions. you keep saying I think this and I
think that. I don't think anything! you're the one assuming all this stuff from
a random internet stranger you will never meet. how would you know if I'm
letting people beat the games for me? you came over to my house and checked
that out? I don't think so! you say I'm not happy about heavy rain? wrong
again. I really could care less what you think my gaming accomplishments are, I
know what I've done and haven't done. I won't even bother discussing it here
though. in fact I don't even know why I bother writing this email. you strike
me as one of these people that are stubborn to the last, and will do anything
to try and prove their point, even if their point is completely off. Your
random assumptions aren't helping at all, they're just making me quite annoyed.
Let's see... you're gonna take some time off your extremely busy schedule to
reply with more accusations?
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:19 PM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
You're discouraging people and your last email was basically telling people
outright not to try. You may not have said "Don't try this." but you might as
well have. You think it's a piece of cake gaming for us sighted people? It's
not and that's the whole point of gaming because if it was easy we wouldn't do
it and that's that simple. There are games I've set asside because I've tried
several times and have been unable to defeat a certain part of that game. Does
that mean I'm not gonna go back? No. It means I'm taking a break. I have yet
to beat Professor Quirell in the first Harry Potter game. I'm at the end of
the game am I gonna give up because it's supposedly beyond my means when I've
tried a handful of times? No. Go ahead and state every accomplishment you'e
done Yohandy but with your attitude to me you are not a gamer. Gamers go
outside their saftey boxes. The fact of the matter is any blind person playing
a game should know already they're not gonna easily beat it. They shouldn't be
looking for games that are easy to beat. That's humilliating and degrading
about as much as when patrick was on this list saying shit about games when he
never plays a game beyond the setting of easy. You talk about getting people's
hopes up? You just sat here and said indirectly that the blind community is
looking for easy games. This game is failproof. It's not like the door to the
mall moves people would find it eventually just like they end up finding the
shower in the first level. Just like you go to find bad guys in any rpg game
you guys do play. You wander around till you freaking find it. You guys rant
and rave about games not being playable at all and then here you have one that
is and you're still not happy! Why? Because it doesn't have spoken dialogue in
menus? Because you don't know what buttons to press in certain situations?
Hey ya know what? They don't give us the answers outright to certain puzzles in
certain games. We sit there and stare at it or wander around just like you
guys would and what do we do? We figure it the Hell out. If everything were
given to you or me or anyone else, if it was all spelled out what would the fun
be? Furthermore you just played the demo you got through it and still deemed
it supposedly unplayable. So that proves something right there. You gave up
and let someone else play it for you. Those people on game anyone don't show
when they get stuck for months because that would be humiliating and boring for
the people watching. You guys see what you want to see. It doesn't matter
when you pre ordered it Yohandy, you're letting someone else play the damn game
for you. How do you know what button combos you'd figure out? How do you know
which ones you'd need to learn? You're making a lot of assumptions based on
what you've HEARD not PLAYED and there's a huge difference there. People don't
have to buy these games like I said before. If they're smart they'll rent
them. I'm not gonna ask anyone anything. But Brandon can say his piece here
if he wishes it is his list. He and I have been discussing it. I'm saying
what I am based on your behaviour on this list. You're the one giving
assumptions to people. I'm a player who has played the game a bit of the way
in and you know what I missed one button on the button combo to the sketch on
the first level and I missed making Shawn dinner, I also didn't find his teddy
bear but I'm gonna play it out because that's what I did and any blind gamer
that attempts to tackle this game should do that too. That's what the
developer wanted was people to play it out and not reload in an attempt to play
it perfectly. To do what they can do.
I hate this general logic you people have. I'm in the same boat as you guys
because I'm a female gamer. I'm not a target audience and in games I have to
deal with crap I sometimes find tasteless. As I said before there are some
games that are beyond my reaction speed too. So because I have a slow reaction
speed by your logic it's unplayable for me so I shouldn't play. Listen to
yourself and what you've said. Go back and read your emails. You don't have
to say things directly but it's there. More than just you do it. If I lost my
sight tomorrow I would never take on that mentality. It's a defeatist
mentality. I have always kept my eyes open for games I felt Brandon could
play. I'm right almost all of the time. Matter of fact I don't think there's
one I've been wrong about yet. So sorry if I have a higher idea of your
abilities than you do people. Should I be apologizing for that? I don't think
so but there ya go it's in print if you want it. Don't come back at me and
tell me I don't know what I'm talking about either. I have a very good gift
for putting myself in other people's shoes and without my glasses I am legally
blind. I would not be able to see to game very well at all either. I can't
even find my glasses if they fall on my floor because it's a dark color. I've
had to use a screen reader at points too when I haven't had my glasses or after
eye doctor appointments. So I'm not an outsider looking in..I'm someone
straddling the line.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 9:14 pm
To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Uh, I never said not to try. you accused me of a few things I never even
hinted at let alone said. I actually consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer.
I've gotten MK vs DC and SF 4 platinums, and I'm real close to getting
platinums on rock band 2 and lego rock band. I would never tell people to give
up on a game, because I don't do it myself. In fact I get a thrill if I do
something I consider insane and succeed. I was just pointing out the facts, and
letting people know that it wouldn't be easy. I don't want people buying heavy
rain thinking oh I'm gonna get this game, and easily beat it. people won't
easily complete this game, and I'm not gonna claim otherwise and get people's
hopes up, and if they happen to suck at it I'll be blamed for the purchase.
it'll take lots of work and motivation. do you think I'd preorder the game a
month in advanced and have it delivered on release day if I was a person who
gave up on things? course not. I knew exactly what I was getting into. already
someone has purchased the game and hasn't played it much, and I sorta feel
responsible for letting them know about HR and having them spend money on it
cause I couldn't shut up about the game. I've spoken to Brandon on MSN
previously. ask him if he thinks I'm the type of gamer to give up on games. You
really shouldn't assume things so quickly, it's rather insulting.
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 8:21 PM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
But I still did it. You're telling people not to even try. There's a
kazillion people there anybody would be blind it's a situation where you're
looking for a needle in a haystack. All you have to do is find the doors..
Until you do nothing happens Yohandy. It's not like he wanders farther and
farther. He's across the street from the mall. You know when you hit the
escalator that makes it's own sound. See this is the problem I have. You guys
are so frustrated with games not being playable that you don't even try. You
just say oh you have to be sighted so I can't do this. Is this how you look at
life? Try.. Seriously try. Don't try once and give up, try and try again. We
sighted people if we can't do something the first time because it's beyond our
range of ability we keep trying. I'm not very good with button combos but I'll
be damned if I let that stop me. I wasn't very good at shooters to the point I
was afraid to play around anyone else because I'd be laughed at. My aim was
just to put it simply shit. But now I'm really good at them. I can't tell you
guys what to do but I think your outlook is very dismal and depressing. Do you
guys realize how many gamer achievements and trophies are just based on pure
dumb luck? A certain situation presenting itself and you just so happen to be
in the right place at the right time? Brandon got a trophy today in mlb for
hitting a home run out in left feild into the rocks at aneheim. He told me he
didn't think he could beat krea in KOTOR 2 but I told him just try it. You
guys don't have to buy any of these games. There's gamefly and there's
blockbuster and other rental places. Go rent them. If you feel after you've
tried the hardest you can and exhausted all options that you can't play it then
fine. But if you just try a handful of times and say I can't do this because
i'm blind, that's not the spirit of any gamer I know. I guess by using your
logic i shouldn't play guitar hero on expert or god of war because i'm not very
good at fast response. I shouldn't play call of duty because i suck at war
games where i have to strategize and work in stealth. I'm an in your face
gamer. I love melee combat in left 4 dead but i still play every single one of
the games I mentioned.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 3:04 pm
To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Misty, you just proved my point. if finding Jason was tough for you,
imagine for a totally blind person? like you said there are a whole mess of
people in that mall. we'll just end up walking around endlessly and he'll
desperately keep searching till we get frustrated and turn off the game or
happen to find him randomly. in this situation, the game will not continue even
if you walk around all day. Jason will just patiently wait for you to find him
before the game triggers the next scene. there are many sections like this
where time won't pass unless you do what the game demands you do. A walkthrough
for this game wouldn't be particularly hard to make, except for writing up
those walking parts. trials will be pretty tough as well. rest is just
basically lists of possible options. it'll be time consuming though!
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:15 PM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
Actually I played most of the mall scene "blind" for about the first
like 5 minutes. I didn't hear the dialogue about the balloon so I was trying
to find a kid in that sea of people it was kinda freaky. Then Brandon
mentioned the balloon and I was like oh! Kid with a balloon kid with a balloon
then I found that kid that wasn't him! I was like omg! Now chelle stayed with
him somehow it was kinda cool. And yes while if you don't get a button press
right it may affect the game later on but it does not mean that the blind
cannot play this game. Now as I said before to see all the paths the game has
to offer you'd need a FAQ. But this isn't the normal situation where you guys
will get stuck and the game will not progress. That is generally what you guys
call a game that's unplayable. So to answer people's questions about it, yes
this game is playable. And I clarified what I meant by it in previous emails.
You CAN play the game independantly.. you can get to the end of it
independantly. Can you unlock all the options to the game independantly? No
but is that better than not being able to play it at all? I'd say yeah but
then again I'm not very far in the game.
I also tend to be a bit crazy when it comes to games LOL! I've had
Brandon do some things he thought was impossible for him to do. Like defeat
Krea in Knights of The Old Republic 2. He defeated Bohan for me in Heavenly
Sword and he's been opening doors for me in Heavy Rain because I just can't
seem to get it right. I've even had Brandon play Left 4 Dead and while he
didn't advance in the level too far, he did not die. That's something right
there! At least I thought it was cool. Also as I said before if I have time to
I'd be willing to help out with the FAQ but it would take me a long time as my
time is limited. Probably would release it by level maybe on Brandon's site.
I don't know yet. Right now I can't say I can do it. So I wanna wait and see
if someone else does it first. It would be better to have someone release it
all at once for you than piece by piece like I would have to when time allowed.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
From: "Yohandy" <yohandy85@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 1:49 pm
To: <brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Misty,
Your point is a good one for the most part, but the game won't
continue in certain situations. for instance the mall scene is one of many
where you need to walk around to find what you need to find. lol trying to not
spoil things is hard work. haha. anyway if you just choose to stand there,
nothing will happen. if it's a button sequence you're dealing with and you
press nothing, an undesirable result will most likely occur that you'll end up
regretting later on. if you press a wrong button, it'll have the same
consequences. this game isn't made in such a way that you can just guess what
to do, you have to know what you're doing. I appreciate that you're trying to
help, but we gotta face facts. we'd all love to play this game independently,
but unless a good faq comes out, I doubt we'll be too successful by simply
guessing. I'm just grateful I have people here that can help. not everyone does.
----- Original Message -----
From: misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't do
Yep that's what I'm saying. You guys have to realize that
failure with this game isn't really failure. It doesn't stop you from seeing
the rest of the game. It continues on even if people die or you make a "wrong"
choice. There really is no right or wrong in this game. That's the whole idea
behind it. So generally you guys say an unplayable game is one that you get
stuck on and cannot advance any further due to something you have to see to
continue. If you can't then you can't continue on in the game and you'll
never see the end. With heavy rain you will see an ending regardless of what
you do. You will get through the game.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and can't
do
From: Søren_Jensen <slj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, March 06, 2010 9:19 am
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Okay. So you're saying this game is playable if you have a
great walkthrough and if you take your time to figure it all out? I don't have
any people who can help me accept for one of my friends who love games, but
he's not here all the time.
Best regards
Søren Jensen
Mail & MSN:
slj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Website:
http://www.coolfortheblind.dk/
Den Mar 5, 2010 kl. 8:00 PM skrev misty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
Okay let me clarify here. This game is not unplayable it's
not beyond the realm of being playable for you guys. If you find a FAQ with
all the button combos they do not change. As for the timings you would have to
figure those out on your own as per usual with these things. It's not like
you'll be stuck people. This game plays on regardless of what happens you will
never be stuck. You will need help but I don't think it goes beyond anything
other than finding an FAQ. If a guy can get help playing legend of zelda which
is way harder than the stuff you have to do in heavy rain, i would say this
would be a cakewalk. I've been helping brandon play parts of heavy rain I've
even failed at parts in heavy rain such as the drawing of the sketch in the
first chapter. Some doors I can't open so I have brandon do it for me. Come
on people be open minded and actually try here. Make an effort.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [brandon's list] Re: Heavy Rain: What we can and
can't do
From: Michael Breedlove <stirlock@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, March 05, 2010 10:26 am
To: brandonslist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is why I don't buy too many games like this. I don't
have someone
around to help me all the time, so there's no point. Plus,
I pretty
much told you that this wasn't very playable on your own.
Buyer
beware.
On 3/5/10, Orin <orin8722@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> After I get home from Disney, I really want to play this
game, and it looks
> like the only way I'm gonna do that is with myself, since
my brother got so
> disinterested quickly.
>
> I'd really hate to return it, or not play it at all, but
the fact is that
> watching it on Youtube you don't see the entire thing;
you see a players
> game and if I were to play it it might be totally
different.
>
> Also, from what it seems, this game has nice and easy
trophies. As in, just
> playing it will net you some trophies. I've watched both
the GameAnyone
> walkthrough and a Youtube walkthrough. The outcomes were
the same, but the
> characters doing certain things were different.
>
> Well, I certainly won't be buying a game again until I'm
sure my brother
> will play it. At least a game like this. I think
eventually we'd be able to
> do it but here's a problem we run into in the prolog.
>
> You can walk around the house nude or at least upstairs
and the bathroom. In
> your room, when you're standing at your dresser or
whatever to get drest, is
> that when the first button prompts come up? My brother
did actually manage
> to get this far for me, and he didn't really tell me
anything so I was
> unsure. Where he stopped and never did pick it up again,
and where it gets
> good, is when Jason goes to the mall. I did manage to get
through this
> scene, however my brother probably would've gotten
through it a lot quicker.
> I also got through the fight with Troy, however I didn't
get the trophy for
> it.
>
> And now I'm at the crime scene. And I'm kinda stuck here.
>
> I doubt anyone has any tips on where to go? Hmm.
Hopefully I can get my
> brother playing somehow. I'd hate to return a kickass
game just because I
> couldn't get help for it.
>
>
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