[brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts on the Specification

  • From: "qubit" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 11:09:29 -0600

I think that the daisy and braille windows/views/whatever you call them 
should be resizeable and draggable, like the spec said.  As long as the 
dialog windows are accessible, there is no need to customize them.
The main window should be as large as it can be on each platform.
My opinions.
I think that since the user can resize and drag the D&B windows, he/she 
should be able to maximize one of them to cover the other, so as to see the 
full context in that document.
Anyone comments?
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:33 AM
Subject: [brailleblaster] Re: Thoughts on the Specification


Another question we need an answer to: How much should the user be
allowed to customize the appearance of BrailleBlaster?

John

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 06:07:40AM -0800, Alex Jurgensen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Well, you saved me a great deal of typing.
>
> I was going to point out the menu bar situation on platforms like OS X 
> which have a system menu bar. I've seen this talked about fro some setups 
> of Ubuntu, althought I've never seen the latter in practice.
>
> Thanks for getting to this task first.
>
> Regards,
> Alex,
>
>
> On 2010-12-09, at 1:59 AM, Michael Whapples wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I don't think having the Braille and daisy views as top level windows 
> > with there own menus would be very natural. Firstly it doesn't really 
> > fit with any other GUI application I can think of, normally they either 
> > modify available menu options depending on the current view or they grey 
> > out unavailable options. So as greyed out options are fairly "normal" to 
> > encounter I don't see why they would be confusing. Then there is the 
> > case of platforms where menus aren't actually in the window but get 
> > placed by applications in a system menu bar like in Mac OSX (NOTE: SWT 
> > will automatically handle this for you). As an example of the Mac 
> > situation, in safari the web browser, even when I go to its preferences 
> > all menu options are still there but ones which are irrelevant to 
> > preferences (eg. the option to show/hide the status bar) are greyed out.
> >
> > Also the idea of two top level windows being present in one application 
> > at the same time just seems odd to me, I couldn't imagine it would look 
> > right (it would probably look like two separate applications). Then what 
> > happens when there are more documents opened, your description seems to 
> > give me more top level windows and more clutter of the desktop. Then 
> > there is the situation of "I am working on a document in BrailleBlaster, 
> > I have finished on that document so I close the document but keeping 
> > BrailleBlaster open as I want to work on another document", what do I 
> > encounter at the point when BrailleBlaster has no open documents? Having 
> > the document views as child elements of a "BrailleBlaster appliccation 
> > top level window" I would be left with an empty BrailleBlaster window 
> > containing only the menus and toolbars (IE. no sub windows), allowing me 
> > to go to the menu and choose open document or new or whatever task I 
> > want to do. Also with my idea of the view, multiple documents would just 
> > lead to more sub views, the desktop only ever has one BrailleBlaster top 
> > level window.
> >
> > Now one thing which might be desired is a shortcut pop-up menu specific 
> > to each view. What I mean is one of those context menus which are 
> > activated by right clicking the mouse of a UI element (use the 
> > applications key or may be shift+f10 and on Mac with voiceover 
> > vo+shift+m). In these context menus only the options relevant to that 
> > element would be shown.
> >
> > Michael Whapples
> > On 09/12/10 04:55, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >> This sounds good. My understanding was that the Daisy and Braille
> >> windows would each have their own menus. The specification doesn't say
> >> so explicitly, but it seemed reasonable, since some things would be
> >> possible in one window and some things in another. If the Daisy and
> >> Braille windows are embedded in a top window with the menus, status bar
> >> and toolbar, the grayed-out options could be confusing and frustrating
> >> for the user. Is this actually the way it will be?
> >>
> >> So the print and embosser previews are basically big dialog boxes. I
> >> don't remember anyone saying they should be open continually. They are
> >> opened when needed.
> >>
> >> I don't think BrailleBlsster should display multiple documents
> >> simultaneously, since it already has two views for each document.
> >> Rather, when a user switched to another document these view would be
> >> changed for that document.
> >>
> >> The Daisy and Braille windows should prbably be called views instead,
> >> especially if they don't contain their own menus.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 08:45:53PM +0000, Michael Whapples wrote:
> >>> We seem to be getting a whole jumble of things here. A window is a 
> >>> very
> >>> generic thing. A dialog is a type of window, normally used to show
> >>> messages or let users select options. A dialog is not embedded in the
> >>> top level window but can be such that it prevents the user going back 
> >>> to
> >>> the main window. A dialog might not cover the main application top 
> >>> level
> >>> window. Then there are child windows (they may have another name) 
> >>> which
> >>> usually is embedded into the top level window. These may be used for
> >>> multiple documents (eg. MS Word has been known to work like this I 
> >>> don't
> >>> know about their latest version). Finally then there are what I am
> >>> calling a top level window, these don't have any other window 
> >>> containing
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>> My feeling is:
> >>> * BrailleBlaster will have a top level window containing the menus and
> >>> such like which are common to all situations.
> >>> * The daisy viewer and Braille viewers will be child windows or may be
> >>> even panes within a child window or may be this will all work on the 
> >>> tab
> >>> idea. Anyway the main idea is these will be embedded into the top 
> >>> level
> >>> window.
> >>> * Print and preview will be dialog boxes as these are both actions 
> >>> (IE.
> >>> I go to print/emboss a document or I go and view how it will be
> >>> printed). I see no reason why print preview would need to be open
> >>> continually.
> >>>
> >>> Michael Whapples
> >>> On 08/12/10 20:13, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >>>> I've never actually looked at a print preview window. Has anyone seen 
> >>>> an
> >>>> embosser preview window? I would think that programs would handle
> >>>> preview by opening a temporary window that either hides the existing
> >>>> window or minimizes them.
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 12:27:33PM -0600, qubit wrote:
> >>>>> Regarding What happens to the windows when a print preview is 
> >>>>> active:
> >>>>> I wonder if opening a new window is a good idea.
> >>>>> I am growing to like one feature in eclipse's UI: eclipse will cycle
> >>>>> through
> >>>>> all the various windows if you hold control and type F7 repeatedly.
> >>>>> It has a lot of rather busy windows.  I wonder what it looks like to 
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> sighted person.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for print preview, I have no idea what to do if you are embossing 
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> document.  The image in the braille window doesn't necessarily look 
> >>>>> like
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> output of the device.  Do the various embossers provide any kind of 
> >>>>> API
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> knowing what the braille will look like?
> >>>>> Also, if viewing it on screen, you are further limited by the 
> >>>>> display
> >>>>> capabilities.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Interesting question.  But do you really want there to be a hard 
> >>>>> coded
> >>>>> window for print preview, print  and emboss?  Couldn't it just be 
> >>>>> like
> >>>>> most
> >>>>> apps that put a command for print and emboss and print preview in 
> >>>>> the file
> >>>>> menu? That could bring up a dialog.
> >>>>> Just wondering.
> >>>>> --le
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "John J. Boyer"<john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To:<brailleblaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:24 AM
> >>>>> Subject: [brailleblaster] Thoughts on the Specification
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have just reread the specification carefully. It certainly hangs
> >>>>> together better for me than at the beginning. Here are some 
> >>>>> thoughts.
> >>>>> There is a menu item for opening a list of recent documents. These
> >>>>> documents should be on the menu, just below the exit choice, as they 
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> ikn most word processors.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The ability to open recent documents means that the users will want 
> >>>>> MDI.
> >>>>> Fortunately, this is not hard to implement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We may need a third window for each document for print and embosser
> >>>>> previews. What happens to the Daisy and Braille windows when a 
> >>>>> preview
> >>>>> is chosen? Are they minimized?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- 
> >>>>> John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> >>>>> Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> >>>>> http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>> Madison, Wisconsin USA
> >>>>> Developing software for people with disabilities
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> >
>
> Alex Jurgensen,
> VoiceOver Trainer,
> ASquared21@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Visit us on the web at: www.vipbc.org
>

-- 
John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
Abilitiessoft, Inc.
http://www.abilitiessoft.com
Madison, Wisconsin USA
Developing software for people with disabilities



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