[bookshare-discuss] Re: choosing booksRE: Ideas Versus Characterization

  • From: "EVAN REESE" <mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:32:57 -0400

Hi Kim,

We generally try to develop a consensus. We don't formally vote. One or more of 
us will suggest something they think sounds good, and we talk it over. We 
usually don't have a problem making a decision. We're all fairly easygoing 
folks. It hasn't happened yet, but if someone really objected to someone else's 
suggestion, we would just come up with something else. Science Fiction is a 
huge field. There's no real reason to have trouble thinking of books to read. 
If someone really doesn't like one suggestion, there are lots of other choices. 
Most of us regulars know the field pretty well, so we can always think of other 
books to suggest if the first suggestion doesn't work for one or more members.

Evan

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kim Friedman 
  To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:17 AM
  Subject: [bookshare-discuss] choosing booksRE: Ideas Versus Characterization


  Hi, Evan, since it appears you are a mover and shaker in the SF book club, 
how do you all decide what to read? I have a friend who got out of a book club 
because she didn't care for the choices other members selected, and she didn't 
wish to read them. Do you draw lots or vote? Regards, Kim Friedman.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:28 AM
  To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Ideas Versus Characterization


  I put this in my Drafts folder, intending to finish it later, and nearly 
forgot about it.

  I didn't like The Unreasoning Mask as much as some others at the club did. It 
wasn't terrible, but not really all that great either. I thought the writing 
was a bit clunky. More importantly, this is a story that could have used better 
characterization because, while Farmer had some interesting ideas, they were 
not developed enough to carry the story without good characterization. A story 
needs *something* in my view, good ideas, plot, setting, characters--to make it 
work, or a combination of those. So, as in the case of 
  The Unreasoning Mask, if the plot is rather murky, the ideas are not well 
developed, and the writing does not really bring the settings alive very well, 
memorable characters would have balanced things out and made it a much better 
story. But, since the writing wasn't all that great, in my opinion, perhaps it 
might not have made a whole lot of difference if he had attempted to create 
more rounded characters.

  Now Childhood's End had a story to tell--a big story. It was a story about 
the human race as a whole, and the tragedy of another race. (I will say no more 
in case you or others might want to read it someday. In my view, it did not 
need good characterization to make it a classic. The writing was much better 
for one thing, but Clarke focused on the main idea and brought it to full 
flowering skillfully. The theme of that book was human transcendence, which is 
a theme that is very close to my heart; so I admit that I am a bit biased on 
this matter. I'm not sure what the theme of The Unreasoning Mask was. The 
Stross stories also had a strong theme of transcendence--one that is much 
closer to likelihood in my view, so I was very interested in how he developed 
his vision of a possible human future. I thought the writing was pretty good in 
those as well. However, it was a bit technical. There is in fact a technical 
reference guide to the Accelerando stories that you can get on Wikipedia.  I 
don't know if that was a source of some of the problems for you, but it may 
have been.

       Just to show that I do like novels with good characterization, God 
Emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert is a prime example. The story is really a 
study of one character. The central idea, why the main character is still 
around at the time of the story, is one I have doubts about. But it doesn't 
matter to me very much. The novel is about the character, not about ideas. Of 
course, the nature of the character makes it one that the author could never 
fully succeed at portraying. But the ambition is phenomenal; and the fact that 
he succeeded as well as he did is quite a marvel. And he did it well enough, 
for me at least, that he created a fascinating and memorable character.

  Evan


  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Kim Friedman 
    To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:35 AM
    Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club, 
Thursday, October 8, 2009


    Hi, Evan, many thanks for the information. I started appreciating SF 
because of a radio show called "Hour 25" on a Pacifica station. There would be 
author interviews, readings of short stories, talk about films, and it covered 
mainly SF, but I heard about horror fiction, some fantasy fiction, and comic 
books. Some of the authors who were guests on the program were Marion Zimmer 
Bradley, David Gerrold, Octavia E. Butler, Frederick Pohl, Anne McCaffrey, 
Diane Duane, etc. I got to liking SF more, so I got The Caves of Steel by 
Asimov. The only comment I can make about what you said is that tastes vary. 
What authors might suit me may not be interesting to you. I have The 
Unreasoning Mask and will read it. Regards, Kim.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
    Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:48 AM
    To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club, 
Thursday, October 8, 2009


    Yes, you can go to
    www.accessibleworld.org
    and there is a link to the Book Nook on the home page.

    I thought those Stross stories were great. But I'm not as much of a 
character person as most people, it would seem. Not that I don't like good 
characters, but I don't think a story has to have great characters for me to 
enjoy it. Some of the greatest SF classics are not about characters. Arthur C. 
Clarke's Childhood's End immediately springs to mind. That novel is widely 
considered a classic by many people, but I don't think very many would consider 
great characterization as one of its strong points. It's one of my favorite SF 
novels even so.

    Evan

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Kim Friedman 
      To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:39 AM
      Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction 
Club, Thursday, October 8, 2009


      Hi, Evan, does the SF book club meet at accessibleworld.org? I can 
remember that address as it's short. With regard to Charles Stross, I've read 
his Manfred Max stories in Asimov's SF magazine, but I couldn't get into those 
stories nor could I identify with the characters or the culture. I don't think 
I'll read this one. Regards, Kim.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
      Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:23 PM
      To: Bob Acosta; scifi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; 
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club, 
Thursday, October 8, 2009


      Hi Folks,

      The next meeting of the Science Fiction Club will take place on Thursday, 
October 8, 2009 in the 
      Book Nook at:
      http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rs7867a2369e0e

      Time: 9 PM Eastern, 8 PM Central, 7 PM Mountain, 6 PM Pacific, and 01 
hour UTC.

      For the next meeting, we are reading Glasshouse by Charles Stross. You 
can get it from both NLS--as digital download at:
      http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.nls/db.65900
      or on tape with number RC 65900
      and from Bookshare at:
      
http://www.bookshare.org/browse/book/38343/Glasshouse%20?returnPath=L3NlYXJjaD9rZXl3b3JkPWdsYXNzaG91c2Um
      with an Excellent rating.

      Here is the long synopsis from Bookshare:
      When Robin wakes up in a clinic with most of his memories missing, it 
doesn't take him long to discover that someone is trying to kill him. It's the 
twenty-seventh century, when interstellar travel is by teleport gate and 
conflicts are fought by network worms that censor refugees' personalities-- 
including Robin's earlier self.
      On the run from a ruthless pursuer and searching for a place to hide, he 
volunteers to participate in a unique experimental polity: the Glasshouse, a 
historical simulation of a pre-accelerated culture circa 1950-2040 where 
participants are assigned anonymized identities. But what looks like the 
perfect sanctuary turns into a trap, placing Robin at the mercy of the 
experimenters-- and at the mercy of his own unbalanced psyche...

      And here is a review from Publisher's Weekly taken from Amazon:
      The censorship wars"during which the Curious Yellow virus devastated the 
network of wormhole gates connecting humanity across the cosmos"are finally 
over at the start of Hugo-winner Stross's brilliant new novel, set in the same 
far-future universe as 2005's Accelerando. Robin is one of millions who have 
had a mind wipe, to forget wartime memories that are too painful"or too 
dangerously inconvenient for someone else. To evade the enemies who don't think 
his mind wipe was enough, Robin volunteers to live in the experimental 
Glasshouse, a former prison for deranged war criminals that will recreate 
Earth's "dark ages" (c. 1950"2040). Entering the community as a female, Robin 
is initially appalled by life as a suburban housewife, then he realizes the 
other participants are all either retired spies or soldiers. Worse yet, 
fragments of old memories return"extremely dangerous in the Glasshouse, where 
the experimenters'
      intentions are as murky as Robin's grasp of his own identity. With nods 
to Kafka, James Tiptree and others,
      Stross's wry SF thriller satisfies on all levels, with memorable 
characters and enough brain-twisting extrapolation for five novels.

      At the last meeting, we had a great discussion of City by Clifford D. 
Simak, with more people than we've had in a long time. Hope to see even more 
next month.

      Evan



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