[bookshare-discuss] choosing booksRE: Ideas Versus Characterization

  • From: "Kim Friedman" <kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:17:57 -0700

Hi, Evan, since it appears you are a mover and shaker in the SF book club,
how do you all decide what to read? I have a friend who got out of a book
club because she didn't care for the choices other members selected, and she
didn't wish to read them. Do you draw lots or vote? Regards, Kim Friedman.

  _____  

From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:28 AM
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Ideas Versus Characterization


I put this in my Drafts folder, intending to finish it later, and nearly
forgot about it.
 
I didn't like The Unreasoning Mask as much as some others at the club did.
It wasn't terrible, but not really all that great either. I thought the
writing was a bit clunky. More importantly, this is a story that could have
used better characterization because, while Farmer had some interesting
ideas, they were not developed enough to carry the story without good
characterization. A story needs *something* in my view, good ideas, plot,
setting, characters--to make it work, or a combination of those. So, as in
the case of 
The Unreasoning Mask, if the plot is rather murky, the ideas are not well
developed, and the writing does not really bring the settings alive very
well, memorable characters would have balanced things out and made it a much
better story. But, since the writing wasn't all that great, in my opinion,
perhaps it might not have made a whole lot of difference if he had attempted
to create more rounded characters.
 
Now Childhood's End had a story to tell--a big story. It was a story about
the human race as a whole, and the tragedy of another race. (I will say no
more in case you or others might want to read it someday. In my view, it did
not need good characterization to make it a classic. The writing was much
better for one thing, but Clarke focused on the main idea and brought it to
full flowering skillfully. The theme of that book was human transcendence,
which is a theme that is very close to my heart; so I admit that I am a bit
biased on this matter. I'm not sure what the theme of The Unreasoning Mask
was. The Stross stories also had a strong theme of transcendence--one that
is much closer to likelihood in my view, so I was very interested in how he
developed his vision of a possible human future. I thought the writing was
pretty good in those as well. However, it was a bit technical. There is in
fact a technical reference guide to the Accelerando stories that you can get
on Wikipedia.  I don't know if that was a source of some of the problems for
you, but it may have been.
 
     Just to show that I do like novels with good characterization, God
Emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert is a prime example. The story is really a
study of one character. The central idea, why the main character is still
around at the time of the story, is one I have doubts about. But it doesn't
matter to me very much. The novel is about the character, not about ideas.
Of course, the nature of the character makes it one that the author could
never fully succeed at portraying. But the ambition is phenomenal; and the
fact that he succeeded as well as he did is quite a marvel. And he did it
well enough, for me at least, that he created a fascinating and memorable
character.
 
Evan
 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Kim  <mailto:kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx> Friedman 
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:35 AM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club,
Thursday, October 8, 2009

Hi, Evan, many thanks for the information. I started appreciating SF because
of a radio show called "Hour 25" on a Pacifica station. There would be
author interviews, readings of short stories, talk about films, and it
covered mainly SF, but I heard about horror fiction, some fantasy fiction,
and comic books. Some of the authors who were guests on the program were
Marion Zimmer Bradley, David Gerrold, Octavia E. Butler, Frederick Pohl,
Anne McCaffrey, Diane Duane, etc. I got to liking SF more, so I got The
Caves of Steel by Asimov. The only comment I can make about what you said is
that tastes vary. What authors might suit me may not be interesting to you.
I have The Unreasoning Mask and will read it. Regards, Kim.

  _____  

From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:48 AM
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club,
Thursday, October 8, 2009


Yes, you can go to
www.accessibleworld.org
and there is a link to the Book Nook on the home page.
 
I thought those Stross stories were great. But I'm not as much of a
character person as most people, it would seem. Not that I don't like good
characters, but I don't think a story has to have great characters for me to
enjoy it. Some of the greatest SF classics are not about characters. Arthur
C. Clarke's Childhood's End immediately springs to mind. That novel is
widely considered a classic by many people, but I don't think very many
would consider great characterization as one of its strong points. It's one
of my favorite SF novels even so.
 
Evan
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kim  <mailto:kimfri11@xxxxxxxxxxx> Friedman 
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:39 AM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club,
Thursday, October 8, 2009


Hi, Evan, does the SF book club meet at accessibleworld.org? I can remember
that address as it's short. With regard to Charles Stross, I've read his
Manfred Max stories in Asimov's SF magazine, but I couldn't get into those
stories nor could I identify with the characters or the culture. I don't
think I'll read this one. Regards, Kim.

  _____  

From: EVAN REESE [mailto:mentat3@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Bob Acosta; scifi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Next Meeting of the Science Fiction Club,
Thursday, October 8, 2009


Hi Folks,
 
The next meeting of the Science Fiction Club will take place on Thursday,
October 8, 2009 in the 
Book Nook at:
http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rs7867a2369e0e
 
Time: 9 PM Eastern, 8 PM Central, 7 PM Mountain, 6 PM Pacific, and 01 hour
UTC.
 
For the next meeting, we are reading Glasshouse by Charles Stross. You can
get it from both NLS--as digital download at:
http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.nls/db.65900
or on tape with number RC 65900
and from Bookshare at:
http://www.bookshare.org/browse/book/38343/Glasshouse%20?returnPath=L3NlYXJj
aD9rZXl3b3JkPWdsYXNzaG91c2Um
with an Excellent rating.
 
Here is the long synopsis from Bookshare:
When Robin wakes up in a clinic with most of his memories missing, it
doesn't take him long to discover that someone is trying to kill him. It's
the twenty-seventh century, when interstellar travel is by teleport gate and
conflicts are fought by network worms that censor refugees' personalities--
including Robin's earlier self.
On the run from a ruthless pursuer and searching for a place to hide, he
volunteers to participate in a unique experimental polity: the Glasshouse, a
historical simulation of a pre-accelerated culture circa 1950-2040 where
participants are assigned anonymized identities. But what looks like the
perfect sanctuary turns into a trap, placing Robin at the mercy of the
experimenters-- and at the mercy of his own unbalanced psyche...

And here is a review from Publisher's Weekly taken from Amazon:
The censorship wars"during which the Curious Yellow virus devastated the
network of wormhole gates connecting humanity across the cosmos"are finally
over at the start of Hugo-winner Stross's brilliant new novel, set in the
same far-future universe as 2005's Accelerando. Robin is one of millions who
have had a mind wipe, to forget wartime memories that are too painful"or too
dangerously inconvenient for someone else. To evade the enemies who don't
think his mind wipe was enough, Robin volunteers to live in the experimental
Glasshouse, a former prison for deranged war criminals that will recreate
Earth's "dark ages" (c. 1950"2040). Entering the community as a female,
Robin is initially appalled by life as a suburban housewife, then he
realizes the other participants are all either retired spies or soldiers.
Worse yet, fragments of old memories return"extremely dangerous in the
Glasshouse, where the experimenters'
intentions are as murky as Robin's grasp of his own identity. With nods to
Kafka, James Tiptree and others,
Stross's wry SF thriller satisfies on all levels, with memorable characters
and enough brain-twisting extrapolation for five novels.

At the last meeting, we had a great discussion of City by Clifford D. Simak,
with more people than we've had in a long time. Hope to see even more next
month.
 
Evan
 


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