[bookshare-discuss] Re: Just Downloaded My First Book for Validation

Thanks, Jake. I've said that so often since I've joined these lists, that I'm thinking of recording a Word macro so I don't have to keep typing it all out so often. (Just kidding.) But you've been a lot of help.

Putting the blurb from the flap in the long synopsis section is a good practice, which I started with my second submission and will continue.

And your right about those pesky rows and columns, too, and the worst thing about my mistake is that i'm a chess player. I really should have this in my bones by now. <chuckle>

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Just Downloaded My First Book for Validation



Hi Evan,
   Sorry I've been out of the loop for a day or two.

One thing you may want to consider is keeping the dusk jacket information in the very beginning of the book. If you put it in the middle of the preliminary material when it wasn't actually there, it's not a huge deal, but it is changing the order of the preliminary pages. Putting the two halves of the dust jacket together is of course advisable and preferred. Again, just another thing to consider.

When I scan a paperback I actually scan every page including covers. The only thing I skip are any order forms that can be torn out to be sent in for more books. I know the back cover is generally the synopsis area, but I guess I think it should come last. Part of my thinking is that there are DAISY tags for front matter and back matter. If we ever reach that level of markup, is anyone's guess. Plus I do list the back cover synopsis under the long sysnopsis on the website, so presumably they read it there before download.

I enjoyed the descriptions of the opticon, kinda wish I had one of those. And you were right the first time, columns are vertical and rows are horizontal. *grin*

Oh, and BTW it took slightly more than three weeks for my NLS verification to go through. I'm not sure why they still advertise 2 weeks when it clearly can take longer.

Cheers!
jake
----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Just Downloaded My First Book for Validation



Thanks, Cindy, I don't see anything wrong with putting it in before the title page, but since breaking it up - as you would have to with a hardcover, which often breaks off the information in the middle of a sentence followed by (continued on back cover), or something like that, or putting it at the end - as in the case of paperbacks just doesn't make sense to me. So, after having read I don't know how many hundreds of books in Braille and on tape from NLS and RFB&D, I just find putting the dust jacket information after the title page and the copyright page - wherever it is comes naturally to me.

Your right, though, any other pages that are actually in the book such as About the Author and such, I leave where they are.

Unless we're producing .pdf files, certain decisions have to be made about that kind of thing, and it's not worth arguing over where to put it - or even to put it in at all, since, as you say, Bookshare doesn't require it. But in this case, following the method that I'm used to seeing, I moved the dust jacket information to below the copyright page. If someone in charge really has a problem with that, they can let me know. I don't see why they would, though, since it isn't required, I could just delete it and nobody in administration would have an issue with that. But I like reading the dust jacket blurb, and I know other people do as well, so I always put it in.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:38 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Just Downloaded My First Book for Validation



As you say, Evan, it is a matter of choice. Bookshare
says we don't have to put that material in, and many
people don't. I put everything--front flap info, back
flap info, back cover info, in front of the title.
Shelley likes to  put it at the end of the book. I
recently validated a book where she put the summary at
the end, and I moved it to the front, since it didn't
make sense to me that after having read the book the
person would read the summary.  Sorry Shelley--smile.

Pages that are at the end of the book, like info about
the author, I leave there, but if author info is on
the flap or the back of the book I put it first.

HTH

Cindy

--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yah, I'm responding to my own message.  <smile>
More of an addendum, really.

I understand that we are to reproduce the paper
version as closely as possible, but where to put
information from the dust jacket is somewhat of a
judgment call, since - if we were to take this
reproduction totally literally, for hardcovers we
would put the information on the front half of the
dust jacket before the title page, and the
information on the back half of the dust jacket at
the end of the book.  I don't think anyone would
agree with that procedure.  For paperbacks,
reproducing the paper version exactly would entail
putting the information on the dust jacket at the
end of the book, since paperbacks generally put that
stuff on the back of the book.

So recognizing that where to put the information
from the dust jacket is at least somewhat of a
judgment call, and that probably most people would
like to read that information somewhere close to the
beginning of the book, and that reproducing the book
exactly isn't really sensible in this case, it seems
most reasonable to put it after the title page and
after the copyright information - assuming it is
after the title page - or wherever it is, but
probably before the information on the dust jacket.

----- Original Message ----- From: Evan Reese
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Just Downloaded
My First Book for Validation



I understand that, which is why I moved it. It was not after the title page, but after the information on the dust jacket; so I would think that my moving the copyright information actually gives the more accurate reproduction of the original book, since it is now after the title page.

  Information from the dust jacket is never
positioned after the title page.  And while I do not
have the copy that was submitted, I do have a
paperback version, and I know that in the submitted
book the information after the title and author is
information from the dust jacket, which is not
what's on the page after the title page.  Even if -
almost certainly - that book is laid out
differently, the information from the dust jacket
would not follow the title page.

----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Brownell
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 6:47 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Just Downloaded
My First Book for Validation



Hi Evan, Don't forget that our job is to reproduce the books in a manner as they were intended in print. So you shouldn't be moving the copyright information because that would be changing the format. Generally copyright information is on the page following the main title page, but it has been known to be located in different places.

HTH,
Jake
----- Original Message ----- From: Evan Reese
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Just
Downloaded My First Book for Validation



Actually, it may not be as bad as I had at first thought. There are quite a lot of errors in the preliminaries, but after the book actually starts, things seem to improve.

      Also, I was wrong about the copyright
information not being present.  He put it after the
dust jacket material and I skipped past it on my
first lookover.  I expected it to be right after the
title and author - where NLS puts it and where I put
it when I scan stuff.  It just seems more logical to
put it there, so I have moved the copyright notice
up to the top just after the title and author.  I
think this is a good practice for people in general
so the validator doesn't have to go looking for it.

      I also should have cut him a little more
slack, as there is a geneological chart at the
beginning of the book with lines going hither and
yon from ancestors to descendants.  No scanner could
be expected to get that straight, and some of the
print is also quite small.  My perfectionism may
have to just take a vacation because I don't think I
can sort this out either.  I may have to just leave
it as it is, regretably.

      I do have a couple of questions, but I'm going
to submit them over at the other list.  Still, I
don't think a rescan will be needed after all.

----- Original Message ----- From: Jill O'Connell
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Re: Just
Downloaded My First Book for Validation



Don't be intimidated; we all had to start
somewhere and you can always ask questions. If you
agree early on that the quality is only fair, you
will probably be better off rescanning; that has
usually been my experience. If this is the case, you
might consider rejecting the book and letting
Bookshare know that you are rescanning; that way you
will get the extra submission credit that you
deserve. Jill
----- Original Message ----- From: Evan Reese
To: bookshare-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: [bookshare-discuss] Just
Downloaded My First Book for Validation



I just downloaded my first book for validation. It's _In The Ruins_ by Kate Elliott, Crown of Stars Volume 6. It was submitted on November 17, so it's been up there for a while. The submitter put it in the Fair category, and by the looks of things, that's about right. I've noticed quite a few errors just in the first few pages. Also, the copyright information was not provided, so I put that in.

          I'm picking up a paper copy this afternoon
from a local bookstore.  If it had been categorized
as excellent, I might not have bothered, but I might
have gotten one anyway - preferably from my local
library - but they didn't have one.  I would prefer
to have a paper copy in case there's a scanning
error that I can't figure out.  I have an Optacon,
so I at least don't have to ask someone sighted
what's on the page if I run into trouble.  I've been
wanting to read this book since it came out last
August, though, so I'm going to read right through
it.

          However, if the errors are too many and
too egregious, I just may scan the whole thing in
again.  It might come out better - my OpenBook does
a pretty good job, especially with hardcovers and
trade paperbacks.  It might be more effective
timewise than trying to puzzle out garbled text.
Hopefully that won't be necessary.

          I'm a little nervous, this being my first
book and all.  I hope I do things correctly.

          By the way, is there a keyboard shortcut
for the Copyright symbol?  I just used alt-169 at
the beginning of the book where it's supposed to be,
but I was wondering if there is a keyboard
combination for that?  Just curious.

          I also subscribed to the volunteer
discussion list.  I was a little intimidated at
first by the 50 messages per day figure cited on the
website, but I figure that it may not be as bad as
all that; it isn't as though I have to read all of
them.



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