[bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the reasonableness of the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual Bookport content)

  • From: "Christy Porter" <cporter001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:39:18 -0500

Absolutely!  In all honesty, I have my days of kicking the computer desk and
cussing the fact that I can't get access to something I want instantly -- or
should I say, as instantly as I felt I had access when I could see.  It's
actually a matter of perception in more than one sense (pardon the terrible
puns inherent in that statement [grin] or not).  I had days when I couldn't
find the copy of the book I wanted with the specific editor's notes or
appendices, too.  Impatience haunts everyone, and in the grip of such a red
monster, no one seems reasonable but me! [laughing]  A commitment like that
for scripted video is truly impressive! 

I wonder if there is an accountant somewhere crunching numbers to determine
which is the most reasonable and cost effective way to make a contribution
to access for each individual company.  I can imagine someone assessing
reports on the values or losses of potential security risks vs. the cost of
descriptive video.  Of course, I come from a long line of accountants and
have no skill for the work myself, so I get these quirky visions from time
to time [grin]~!

--Christy
http://caution-blind-driver.blogspot.com/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of Kelly Pierce
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:34 PM
> To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the
reasonableness of
> the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual bookport content)
> 
> Christy analysis of the audio book market also explains why companies
can't
> just be judged on access issues on what they do with audio books alone.
> For example, the publishing divisions of Newscorp nearly universally do
not
> allow their audio books on Overdrive to be burned onto a CD.  Yet, the
> company's major film division, 20th Century Fox, has committed to
releasing
> all of its movies with both audio descriptions and closed captions.  This
> is a major commitment that only one other company, general electric, has
> done in pledging support for accessible content.
> 
> Kelly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christy Porter" <cporter001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:50 PM
> Subject: [bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the
> reasonableness of the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual
> bookport content)
> 
> 
> >.>  It
> >> would be interesting to learn if certain publishers were consistently
> > absent
> >> from the audible catalog of materials.
> >
> > Well, it's probably easier or more realistic to consider the issue on an
> > author by author basis, since each work has audio rights that must be
> > purchased from the author originally.  Most major publishers have audio
> > divisions these days, or make use of existing producers like Recorded
> > Books,
> > Brilliance, or Books on Tape.  Simon and Schuster has it's own division,
> > as
> > does Random House.  Not sure about some of the others.  But not every
> > title
> > they produce is made into an audio book, only the ones they think will
> > make
> > them money with the general public. And you'll notice that the majority
> > of
> > books available for general public consumption are still abridged.  This
> > is
> > also a way of "protecting" copyright, or creative work, since you have
to
> > go
> > buy the hard copy to get the whole thing.  It's also a factor of the
> > expected audio attention span of the average user -- not very long! --
> > rather than of the attention span of people who rely on audio, like us.
> > [smile]
> >
> > --Christy
> > http://caution-blind-driver.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On
> >> Behalf Of albert griffith
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:06 AM
> >> To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the
> > reasonableness of
> >> the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual bookport content)
> >>
> >> Currently, sound Taxi, a fifteen dollar program will convert Audible
> > files.
> >> I originally purchased the program to convert files I received from my
> >> public library through a service, Net Library.  Net Library, and
> > Overdrive,
> >> are two audio book publishing concerns which distribute books to
library
> >> lending sites.  Both companies offer downloadable books and they have
> > allot
> >> to choose from.  Sound Taxi allowed me to play the files on my Book
> >> Port.
> > I
> >> felt cracking their scheme was appropriate civil disobedience since I
> > wasn't
> >> distributing them for profit.  I'm the guy who stated, some publishers
> >> didn't want to work with Audible.  I only guessed the reason was
> >> security
> >> related but I remember reading there were some concerns in that area
> >> I'm
> > grateful I still have thousands
> >> of title from which to choose through my local lending library because
I
> >> don't usually like carrying around a cassette player.  I sold my book
> >> port
> >> in anticipation of receiving the new model.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> On Behalf Of Christy Porter
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:24 AM
> >> To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [bookport] the realistic nature of piracy and the
> >> reasonableness
> > of
> >> the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual bookport content)
> >>
> >> Good point.  If I remember correctly, at one point, each title had a
> > little
> >> cd with flames next to it to indicate that burning to cd was possible
> >> for
> >> the title.  By the time audible.com redesigned all its webpages, I was
> >> no
> >> longer using the screen, but JAWS, so I don't know if they still
> >> indicate
> >> this for each individual title.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, when I was still driving and even now for road
trips,
> >> I
> >> burn titles to CD to share over the car audio system since it's more
> >> interactive on a long trip, and we enjoy sharing some titles.  I must
> >> have
> >> 40 to 50 books burned to cd, all in their little paper covers, filed
and
> >> stored [grin]. Yes, I'm such a geek. [laughing], but the cd's are about
> > the
> >> only organized thing in the house, so I'm content.
> >>
> >> So far, though, I've never run into a title that I could not burn to
CD.
> >> I've not made use of Audible Manager for quite some time, however.  Do
> >> you
> >> still have to download the cd burning software as a separate add-on?
> >> Anyway, personally, I've always been extremely pleased with audible
> > overall.
> >>
> >>
> >> And I have to agree with what others have said.  If someone is really
> > intent
> >> on breaking copyright, they'll find a way.  It seems to me a matter of
> >> weighing the potential for making money from selling audiobooks in a
> >> reasonably protected format that is still somewhat flexible like the
> > Audible
> >> books vs. having copyright protection as a primary concern, above and
> > beyond
> >> all others.
> >>
> >> How much control do authors and publishers have over whether or not
> >> their
> >> titles are included in the NLS system?  If they don't have "opt out"
> >> options, and since the service is not about making money selling the
> >> books
> >> with money going to the authors for their creative work, but about
> >> distributing the books for free in good faith, then I can understand
why
> >> this issue is far more of a determining factor for the NLS books.
> >> Personally, I'll just stick with the cassettes until the library
players
> >> come out or until I win the lotto.
> >>
> >> When a regular public library buys audiobooks on CD to distribute (or
> > print
> >> books, for that matter) , they pay an additional fee for the book based
> >> on
> >> their potential readership to help compensate for the income not being
> > made
> >> by forcing everyone to purchase copies.  It doesn't cover the
difference
> > by
> >> any means, of course, and there's no real allotment for the chance that
> >> someone will photocopy the pages illegally or rip the CD's while the
> >> books
> >> are checked out.  But having the books on audio CD for the local
library
> > to
> >> purchase and lend is part of the advantage of having them on audio cd
> >> for
> >> sale at all, and the author or publisher gets to choose those risks and
> > the
> >> potential for income against those risks.
> >>
> >> There's no (or very little) potential benefit for the authors and
> > publishers
> >> to having their titles in the NLS audio library system.  So, yeah,
those
> > who
> >> didn't choose to take the risk of having their materials on audio cd
> >> would
> >> be justified in their concern for copyright protection in the new NLS
> >> formats, particularly since those titles could be distributed widely
> >> with
> >> the click of a mouse once they were opened on a single personal
> >> computer.
> >>
> >> As for who would screw around making 10 to 20 CD's or more for a book
> >> and
> >> then rip them back into the computer in MP3 format?  Well, few would do
> >> it
> >> for a single copy to be played on a more convenient player.  But money
> >> has
> >> always made boredom more acceptable to many.  Someone interested in
> > serious
> >> piracy could do it and make cash, or 20 people who wanted to pay a
> >> dollar
> >> each for a single Audible membership and then distribute copies amongst
> >> themselves might find it less tedious than I would.  All you can do is
> > hope
> >> such people don't screw it up for the rest of us! But it's hardly such
a
> > far
> >> fetched idea as your comments seem to imply.
> >>
> >> As an example, consider a book like The Historian or one of the other
> > titles
> >> I have that are 48 or 50 cd's long and cost about $80 a pop in the
> >> bookstore?  The Historian was originally two audio audible credits or
> > about
> >> 24 bucks through audible, and now it's only one credit or about 12
> >> bucks.
> >> Amazon.com has used unabridged copies listed at $119.00; I don't recall
> >> seeing this available unabridged on CD in the bookstores, though.  Hard
> >> to
> >> come by.  Audible's "regular" price for the unabridged version is
listed
> > as
> >> $68 with the member cash price set at about $48.00 bucks for a 26-27
> >> hour
> >> long title.
> >>
> >> The cheapest way to purchase the title, is, of course, through the
> >> subscription service at 12 bucks for one credit.  With a fast
processor,
> >> your talking about several hours of work to break the copyright through
> > the
> >> cd to mp3 long route.  Then, even if a schmuck only charged $40 or 50
> > bucks
> >> for the book, the schmuck would make a significant amount of money per
> >> pirated copy for all those who want "just this one title" without
paying
> > the
> >> premium market worth of the title or undertaking the liabilities of a
> >> subscription.  The creepy pirate would have plenty of takers in a big
> > city.
> >> Should Creep have a fast burner and processor and be required to spend
> >> significant amounts of time at the computer anyway or should creep want
> >> a
> >> way to pay for his World of Warcraft time that he can do while playing
> > World
> >> of Warcraft, the time spent to make this title accessible or
pirate-able
> >> would be nothing.  Extrapolate now as to the value, ease, and dirty
> >> money
> > to
> >> be made doing all this over the internet with something instantly
> >> distributable via download once the protection code was cracked?  Creep
> >> could pay for college, buy even more computers for criminal activity,
> >> lessons on how to hide his I p address by hacking into and through
other
> >> servers,  and STILL spend all day and night playing World of Warcraft.
> > With
> >> the money to be made for something that hits pop culture fame, like The
> >> Da
> >> Vinci Code or Tolkien's novels, and the fact that my scenario requires
> > Creep
> >> to have little to no skills for coming up with a way to work around the
> >> protective software, I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more
> >> often.
> >>
> >> If the authors and publishers can't opt out of being in the NLS, and
> >> we're
> >> talking about an instantly downloadable book acquired completely for
> >> free
> > as
> >> the NLS books are, I can understand why they want more than just the
> >> irritation and time factors to keep people from burning to CD as a
> >> workaround.  Also, given the vast number of titles eventually available
> >> through NLS, the far reaching nature of potential piracy and the impact
> > such
> >> piracy could have on the authors' incomes and returns for creative work
> > over
> >> time, yeah, I'd be worried, particularly since the depth of the library
> >> would make a crack program far more worth developing than it would for
> >> audible.com's current, though admittedly growing, list of titles?  The
> > easy
> >> and perpetual access to the books also becomes a significant factor in
> >> weighing the concerns of potential piracy.  For many authors, NLS has
> > entire
> >> bodies of work available, not just a single, more recent title, or a
> > series
> >> as does audible or recorded books, or Audiobookstand.
> >>
> >> Perhaps the only reason piracy hasn't yet happened on a larger scale in
> >> audiobooks is that the percentage of the population who can actually
> >> enjoy
> > a
> >> full length audio book is still relatively small when compared to the
> >> percentage who can read print or who can listen to pirated music.  As
> >> the
> >> popularity of audiobooks continues to grow, though, I'm sure the
> >> criminal
> >> element will follow.  As it is, we who rely on audiobooks are still
> > spending
> >> large amounts of time scrambling to find all the titles we want in
> >> spoken
> >> audio format, so perhaps the potential and feasibility for criminal
> > activity
> >> over the next five years is not so easy to recognize as our own
> > frustration.
> >> [smile]  An I agree with you, I'm surprised they're going to allow the
> > Icon
> >> to play the books, too.  But I'd never day they are paranoid.
> >>
> >> Me, I'll stick to my bookport; it  is just dandy for me, and I don't
> >> have
> >> the nerves for that type of thing. When I grow up, retire,  or win that
> >> lotto, I'd love to make my living writing historical trash novels.
> >> [grin]
> >> So I'm interested in maintaining a certain level of copyright
> >> protection.
> >> And, for an individual, as you say, why bother? Audible is quite
> >> generous
> >> with the number of devices you can have activated, so whenever
someone's
> >> wanted to borrow a title, I put it onto my old "Audible Otis" and let
> >> them
> >> borrow the whole thing just like borrowing a paperback.  MUCH more
> >> efficient! I've been using Audible since 2002, so I've plenty of titles
> > that
> >> can still go on such an "ancient" gadget. Though I've noticed fewer and
> >> fewer titles still have the level one or level two formats available.
> >> Again, as the copyright protections get more sophisticated, so must the
> >> gadgets, which is exactly where we are with the bookport and NLS.  Nice
> >> loop, yes?  Well, maybe more irritating than nice, but there you've got
> > me.
> >>
> >> Oh, and thanks to Pam and APH for being straight with us.  You've
earned
> > my
> >> loyalty yet again! And honestly, by the time you have the chance to
> > develop
> >> the bookport 2 at  the high quality we've gotten used to, I won't be
> >> quite
> >> so disgruntled over having just gotten mine two years ago and being
> >> faced
> >> with the need to upgrade! [grin]
> >>
> >> --Christy
> >> http://caution-blind-driver.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> On
> >> > Behalf Of Kitty Litter
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:02 PM
> >> > To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Subject: [bookport] Re: Audible vs. NLS
> >> >
> >> > This is not quite true. The ability to burn certain audible books to
> >> > CD is built-in to the audible software. If they wanted too, they
could
> >> > remove
> >> that
> >> > component from audible manager. Publishers know this and I believe
> >> > audible can turn this off on a per book basis. Who in their right
mind
> >> > would screw around making ten CD's or whatever and then ripping them
> >> > to mp3? Most
> >> people
> >> > wouldn't bother. And I'm curious whether the guy who said publishers
> >> > wouldn't allow audible to sell their books because of the lack of
> >> > security can site the source for that statement?
> >> >
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date:
> >> 9/28/2007 3:40
> >> > PM
> >> >
> >>
> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date:
> > 9/28/2007
> >> 3:40 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date:
> > 9/29/2007 1:32
> >> PM
> >
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date:
> > 9/29/2007
> > 1:32 PM
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date:
9/29/2007 1:32
> PM
> 

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Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date: 9/29/2007
1:32 PM
 


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  • » [bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the reasonableness of the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual Bookport content)