Absolutely! In all honesty, I have my days of kicking the computer desk and cussing the fact that I can't get access to something I want instantly -- or should I say, as instantly as I felt I had access when I could see. It's actually a matter of perception in more than one sense (pardon the terrible puns inherent in that statement [grin] or not). I had days when I couldn't find the copy of the book I wanted with the specific editor's notes or appendices, too. Impatience haunts everyone, and in the grip of such a red monster, no one seems reasonable but me! [laughing] A commitment like that for scripted video is truly impressive! I wonder if there is an accountant somewhere crunching numbers to determine which is the most reasonable and cost effective way to make a contribution to access for each individual company. I can imagine someone assessing reports on the values or losses of potential security risks vs. the cost of descriptive video. Of course, I come from a long line of accountants and have no skill for the work myself, so I get these quirky visions from time to time [grin]~! --Christy http://caution-blind-driver.blogspot.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Kelly Pierce > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:34 PM > To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the reasonableness of > the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual bookport content) > > Christy analysis of the audio book market also explains why companies can't > just be judged on access issues on what they do with audio books alone. > For example, the publishing divisions of Newscorp nearly universally do not > allow their audio books on Overdrive to be burned onto a CD. Yet, the > company's major film division, 20th Century Fox, has committed to releasing > all of its movies with both audio descriptions and closed captions. This > is a major commitment that only one other company, general electric, has > done in pledging support for accessible content. > > Kelly > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christy Porter" <cporter001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:50 PM > Subject: [bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the > reasonableness of the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual > bookport content) > > > >.> It > >> would be interesting to learn if certain publishers were consistently > > absent > >> from the audible catalog of materials. > > > > Well, it's probably easier or more realistic to consider the issue on an > > author by author basis, since each work has audio rights that must be > > purchased from the author originally. Most major publishers have audio > > divisions these days, or make use of existing producers like Recorded > > Books, > > Brilliance, or Books on Tape. Simon and Schuster has it's own division, > > as > > does Random House. Not sure about some of the others. But not every > > title > > they produce is made into an audio book, only the ones they think will > > make > > them money with the general public. And you'll notice that the majority > > of > > books available for general public consumption are still abridged. This > > is > > also a way of "protecting" copyright, or creative work, since you have to > > go > > buy the hard copy to get the whole thing. It's also a factor of the > > expected audio attention span of the average user -- not very long! -- > > rather than of the attention span of people who rely on audio, like us. > > [smile] > > > > --Christy > > http://caution-blind-driver.blogspot.com/ > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > On > >> Behalf Of albert griffith > >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:06 AM > >> To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> Subject: [bookport] Re: the realistic nature of piracy and the > > reasonableness of > >> the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual bookport content) > >> > >> Currently, sound Taxi, a fifteen dollar program will convert Audible > > files. > >> I originally purchased the program to convert files I received from my > >> public library through a service, Net Library. Net Library, and > > Overdrive, > >> are two audio book publishing concerns which distribute books to library > >> lending sites. Both companies offer downloadable books and they have > > allot > >> to choose from. Sound Taxi allowed me to play the files on my Book > >> Port. > > I > >> felt cracking their scheme was appropriate civil disobedience since I > > wasn't > >> distributing them for profit. I'm the guy who stated, some publishers > >> didn't want to work with Audible. I only guessed the reason was > >> security > >> related but I remember reading there were some concerns in that area > >> I'm > > grateful I still have thousands > >> of title from which to choose through my local lending library because I > >> don't usually like carrying around a cassette player. I sold my book > >> port > >> in anticipation of receiving the new model. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >> On Behalf Of Christy Porter > >> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:24 AM > >> To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> Subject: [bookport] the realistic nature of piracy and the > >> reasonableness > > of > >> the NLS focus on copyright protections (little actual bookport content) > >> > >> Good point. If I remember correctly, at one point, each title had a > > little > >> cd with flames next to it to indicate that burning to cd was possible > >> for > >> the title. By the time audible.com redesigned all its webpages, I was > >> no > >> longer using the screen, but JAWS, so I don't know if they still > >> indicate > >> this for each individual title. > >> > >> On the other hand, when I was still driving and even now for road trips, > >> I > >> burn titles to CD to share over the car audio system since it's more > >> interactive on a long trip, and we enjoy sharing some titles. I must > >> have > >> 40 to 50 books burned to cd, all in their little paper covers, filed and > >> stored [grin]. Yes, I'm such a geek. [laughing], but the cd's are about > > the > >> only organized thing in the house, so I'm content. > >> > >> So far, though, I've never run into a title that I could not burn to CD. > >> I've not made use of Audible Manager for quite some time, however. Do > >> you > >> still have to download the cd burning software as a separate add-on? > >> Anyway, personally, I've always been extremely pleased with audible > > overall. > >> > >> > >> And I have to agree with what others have said. If someone is really > > intent > >> on breaking copyright, they'll find a way. It seems to me a matter of > >> weighing the potential for making money from selling audiobooks in a > >> reasonably protected format that is still somewhat flexible like the > > Audible > >> books vs. having copyright protection as a primary concern, above and > > beyond > >> all others. > >> > >> How much control do authors and publishers have over whether or not > >> their > >> titles are included in the NLS system? If they don't have "opt out" > >> options, and since the service is not about making money selling the > >> books > >> with money going to the authors for their creative work, but about > >> distributing the books for free in good faith, then I can understand why > >> this issue is far more of a determining factor for the NLS books. > >> Personally, I'll just stick with the cassettes until the library players > >> come out or until I win the lotto. > >> > >> When a regular public library buys audiobooks on CD to distribute (or > > print > >> books, for that matter) , they pay an additional fee for the book based > >> on > >> their potential readership to help compensate for the income not being > > made > >> by forcing everyone to purchase copies. It doesn't cover the difference > > by > >> any means, of course, and there's no real allotment for the chance that > >> someone will photocopy the pages illegally or rip the CD's while the > >> books > >> are checked out. But having the books on audio CD for the local library > > to > >> purchase and lend is part of the advantage of having them on audio cd > >> for > >> sale at all, and the author or publisher gets to choose those risks and > > the > >> potential for income against those risks. > >> > >> There's no (or very little) potential benefit for the authors and > > publishers > >> to having their titles in the NLS audio library system. So, yeah, those > > who > >> didn't choose to take the risk of having their materials on audio cd > >> would > >> be justified in their concern for copyright protection in the new NLS > >> formats, particularly since those titles could be distributed widely > >> with > >> the click of a mouse once they were opened on a single personal > >> computer. > >> > >> As for who would screw around making 10 to 20 CD's or more for a book > >> and > >> then rip them back into the computer in MP3 format? Well, few would do > >> it > >> for a single copy to be played on a more convenient player. But money > >> has > >> always made boredom more acceptable to many. Someone interested in > > serious > >> piracy could do it and make cash, or 20 people who wanted to pay a > >> dollar > >> each for a single Audible membership and then distribute copies amongst > >> themselves might find it less tedious than I would. All you can do is > > hope > >> such people don't screw it up for the rest of us! But it's hardly such a > > far > >> fetched idea as your comments seem to imply. > >> > >> As an example, consider a book like The Historian or one of the other > > titles > >> I have that are 48 or 50 cd's long and cost about $80 a pop in the > >> bookstore? The Historian was originally two audio audible credits or > > about > >> 24 bucks through audible, and now it's only one credit or about 12 > >> bucks. > >> Amazon.com has used unabridged copies listed at $119.00; I don't recall > >> seeing this available unabridged on CD in the bookstores, though. Hard > >> to > >> come by. Audible's "regular" price for the unabridged version is listed > > as > >> $68 with the member cash price set at about $48.00 bucks for a 26-27 > >> hour > >> long title. > >> > >> The cheapest way to purchase the title, is, of course, through the > >> subscription service at 12 bucks for one credit. With a fast processor, > >> your talking about several hours of work to break the copyright through > > the > >> cd to mp3 long route. Then, even if a schmuck only charged $40 or 50 > > bucks > >> for the book, the schmuck would make a significant amount of money per > >> pirated copy for all those who want "just this one title" without paying > > the > >> premium market worth of the title or undertaking the liabilities of a > >> subscription. The creepy pirate would have plenty of takers in a big > > city. > >> Should Creep have a fast burner and processor and be required to spend > >> significant amounts of time at the computer anyway or should creep want > >> a > >> way to pay for his World of Warcraft time that he can do while playing > > World > >> of Warcraft, the time spent to make this title accessible or pirate-able > >> would be nothing. Extrapolate now as to the value, ease, and dirty > >> money > > to > >> be made doing all this over the internet with something instantly > >> distributable via download once the protection code was cracked? Creep > >> could pay for college, buy even more computers for criminal activity, > >> lessons on how to hide his I p address by hacking into and through other > >> servers, and STILL spend all day and night playing World of Warcraft. > > With > >> the money to be made for something that hits pop culture fame, like The > >> Da > >> Vinci Code or Tolkien's novels, and the fact that my scenario requires > > Creep > >> to have little to no skills for coming up with a way to work around the > >> protective software, I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more > >> often. > >> > >> If the authors and publishers can't opt out of being in the NLS, and > >> we're > >> talking about an instantly downloadable book acquired completely for > >> free > > as > >> the NLS books are, I can understand why they want more than just the > >> irritation and time factors to keep people from burning to CD as a > >> workaround. Also, given the vast number of titles eventually available > >> through NLS, the far reaching nature of potential piracy and the impact > > such > >> piracy could have on the authors' incomes and returns for creative work > > over > >> time, yeah, I'd be worried, particularly since the depth of the library > >> would make a crack program far more worth developing than it would for > >> audible.com's current, though admittedly growing, list of titles? The > > easy > >> and perpetual access to the books also becomes a significant factor in > >> weighing the concerns of potential piracy. For many authors, NLS has > > entire > >> bodies of work available, not just a single, more recent title, or a > > series > >> as does audible or recorded books, or Audiobookstand. > >> > >> Perhaps the only reason piracy hasn't yet happened on a larger scale in > >> audiobooks is that the percentage of the population who can actually > >> enjoy > > a > >> full length audio book is still relatively small when compared to the > >> percentage who can read print or who can listen to pirated music. As > >> the > >> popularity of audiobooks continues to grow, though, I'm sure the > >> criminal > >> element will follow. As it is, we who rely on audiobooks are still > > spending > >> large amounts of time scrambling to find all the titles we want in > >> spoken > >> audio format, so perhaps the potential and feasibility for criminal > > activity > >> over the next five years is not so easy to recognize as our own > > frustration. > >> [smile] An I agree with you, I'm surprised they're going to allow the > > Icon > >> to play the books, too. But I'd never day they are paranoid. > >> > >> Me, I'll stick to my bookport; it is just dandy for me, and I don't > >> have > >> the nerves for that type of thing. When I grow up, retire, or win that > >> lotto, I'd love to make my living writing historical trash novels. > >> [grin] > >> So I'm interested in maintaining a certain level of copyright > >> protection. > >> And, for an individual, as you say, why bother? Audible is quite > >> generous > >> with the number of devices you can have activated, so whenever someone's > >> wanted to borrow a title, I put it onto my old "Audible Otis" and let > >> them > >> borrow the whole thing just like borrowing a paperback. MUCH more > >> efficient! I've been using Audible since 2002, so I've plenty of titles > > that > >> can still go on such an "ancient" gadget. Though I've noticed fewer and > >> fewer titles still have the level one or level two formats available. > >> Again, as the copyright protections get more sophisticated, so must the > >> gadgets, which is exactly where we are with the bookport and NLS. Nice > >> loop, yes? Well, maybe more irritating than nice, but there you've got > > me. > >> > >> Oh, and thanks to Pam and APH for being straight with us. You've earned > > my > >> loyalty yet again! And honestly, by the time you have the chance to > > develop > >> the bookport 2 at the high quality we've gotten used to, I won't be > >> quite > >> so disgruntled over having just gotten mine two years ago and being > >> faced > >> with the need to upgrade! [grin] > >> > >> --Christy > >> http://caution-blind-driver.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > [mailto:bookport-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > >> On > >> > Behalf Of Kitty Litter > >> > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:02 PM > >> > To: bookport@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > Subject: [bookport] Re: Audible vs. NLS > >> > > >> > This is not quite true. The ability to burn certain audible books to > >> > CD is built-in to the audible software. If they wanted too, they could > >> > remove > >> that > >> > component from audible manager. Publishers know this and I believe > >> > audible can turn this off on a per book basis. Who in their right mind > >> > would screw around making ten CD's or whatever and then ripping them > >> > to mp3? Most > >> people > >> > wouldn't bother. And I'm curious whether the guy who said publishers > >> > wouldn't allow audible to sell their books because of the lack of > >> > security can site the source for that statement? > >> > > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: > >> 9/28/2007 3:40 > >> > PM > >> > > >> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: > > 9/28/2007 > >> 3:40 PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date: > > 9/29/2007 1:32 > >> PM > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date: > > 9/29/2007 > > 1:32 PM > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 1:32 > PM > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1037 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 1:32 PM