[blindza] Re: Sensitization thru The.Sponge newsletter

Dear Tony

As far as I know, both Pieter van Niekerk and I are on the NAPSA list. I will 
however, contact you off list so that I don't clutter everyone's inboxes with 
rather a lot of information.

Incidentally, I am no longer an office bearer of Blind SA.

Regards

Hazel Marshall


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tony Webb 
  To: BLINDZA 
  Cc: Pieter van Niekerk ; Hazel Marshall 
  Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 10:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [blindza] Re: Sensitization thru The.Sponge newsletter


  Thanks Jacob, you have focused my thinking. 
  I got too close to the issue and forgot that a couple of months ago,  Hazel 
Marshall of Blind SA was compiling a list of occupations practised by blind or 
partially sighted people.
  I hope she can suggest a couple of blind people who I can contact to ask to 
write a few lines about themselves at work, preferably employed in commerce or 
industry.

  And  Pieter van Niekerk of Guide Dogs may have some ideas.

  I will copy this email to both of them as they might not be on BLINDZA List.

  Regards,
  Tony.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Jacob Kruger 
    To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:48 AM
    Subject: [blindza] Re: Sensitization thru The.Sponge newsletter


    I think it's an excellent idea, and would suggest someone who has what you 
would call a sort of 'normal - day to day' life, so that it would in fact pass 
the message along.

    In other words, someone who lives something similar to what a sighted 
person would consider a normal life, if you know what I mean?

    Will also just say that am pretty sure that when sighted people hear about 
something too far beyond their imaginations, they might assume it was something 
like a belated april fools joke - not trying to tell you not to try this at 
all, but just stating an opinion from the other side of things, if you know 
what I mean.

    Maybe someone like, I think, Susan Webber, who may be involved in blind 
rally navigator activities, etc., but also works at momentum as far as I know, 
and I also know at least one of my friends happened to run into her waiting at 
a bus stop in Pretoria, I think with her guide dog with her, when he was that 
side, etc.

    Aside from that, maybe just someone who has a sort of normal job, so maybe 
BlindSA would be the best to ask?

    Stay well

    Jacob Kruger
    Blind Biker
    Skype: BlindZA
    '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Tony Webb 
      To: BLINDZA 
      Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 9:35 AM
      Subject: [blindza] Sensitization thru The.Sponge newsletter


      Hi Carl and Jacob,
      I have been reading your recent discussions on sensitizing sighted  people
      One of the aims of The.Sponge project is to use our newsletter to 
sensitize those on our email list about disability issues.
      Our list already includes nearly 3000 contacts in government departments, 
NGOs and other organisations.

      I am currently drafting a newsletter for April/May and would like to 
include a short item that could get the message across in maximum 10 lines that 
many blind people do have an independent life and are not all destined to weave 
baskets or be sponsored for sport.

      One suggestion is to use as a role model someone who has a regular job, 
could be a factory worker or a senior manager, so that organisations can 
envisage that person working for them.

      I hope that that might achieve more  than trying to lecture the world 
about disability etiquette, or how they should always provide reasonable 
accommodation for disabled people.

      What do you think? 
      Any suggestions for a blind person as a role model?
      Anyone on this list prepared to write about themselves (max 10 lines)

      Regards,
      Tony
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Carl de Campos 
        To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 6:35 AM
        Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


        That's really cool to expose sighted people to the many activities they 
take for granted.
        This should be done more regularly at corporate events, schools etc.
        I ran a Scout base a few years back at the farm where we blind folded 
the scout kids and made them walk with sticks through an obstacle course.  Of 
course this was extremely entertaining and most got lost or crashed into the 
thorn bush which I warned everyone about.

        Thanks / Regards

        Carl de Campos
        SQL DBA 
        Business Connection for Edcon

        E-Mail:  carldc@xxxxxxxxxx
        Cell:  078 750 0307
        Skype:  carl.de.campos
        Personal Web Site:  
        http://carldc.net

          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: Jacob Kruger 
          To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 21:11
          Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


          With regard to blindfolding them, that's what we did at both 
awareness events here in kempton - at the movie night - they were blindfolded 
for around an hour and a half, making them try normal things like eating, 
pouring drinks, and drinking them, dancing,walking to bathroom with bit of 
assistance, listening to some of a narrated movie soundtrack etc.

          At the pub2pub walk, at each venue on the route, we also got them to 
try out things with blindfolds on, including throwing darts, playing a shot on 
a pool table, pouring a beer without spilling, throwing a blind cricket ball, 
etc.

          Stay well

          Jacob Kruger
          Blind Biker
          Skype: BlindZA
          '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Carl de Campos 
            To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 3:26 PM
            Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


            Oh yes I heard about Hein's scale to 10 navigation method, must 
work very well.
            My friend with the 4x4 had the 5 degrees, 10 degrees thing, but 
never knew how accurate that was.

            Blind folding a sighted driver must be quite a funny thing, I know 
how useless a sighted person can at times be when blind folded, just because 
they're not used to it at all.
              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: Jacob Kruger 
              To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
              Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 14:10
              Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


              Other difference noticed is that Hein uses a scale of 1 to 10 
with 1 meaning he would need to go more left, 5 is head on, and 10 would mean 
go a lot more to right, but my friends and me just went for little bit left, 
little bit right, doing fine, etc. etc.

              First time rode at Phakisa in 2006 was actually up and down the 
main straight 4 times or so, in just first gear, and, yes it made everyone a 
little more nervous - including me since there's less leeway for veering off 
course, but we still reckon one day not too far from now I will do also at 
least one corner...the friend who was directing me reckons he'll sit on back, 
and as long as he stays relaxed, while he couldn't really do anything to handle 
bars, or brakes, his positioning/posture might also just help sort of pass 
messages on to me, as well as helping a bit with counter steering if we get it 
right.

              I've also taken boats around dams once or twice, but with someone 
standing next to me on the small speedboat thing, and while I was still in 
hospital, some of my sighted friends reckon they tried out driving a car on 
normal roads with a blindfold and the passenger directing them once or twice 
just because it had occurred to them...<smile>

              They also occasionally do a form of nascar flat track car racing 
in america, with blind drivers and sighted navigators.

                ----- Original Message ----- 
                From: Carl de Campos 
                To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 1:20 PM
                Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


                Oh yes, I guess a nervous person on the back of a bike can be a 
problem, less than on 4 wheels.

                Hein had a pro navigator in the car with him, I guess from a 
safety point of view, someone in or on the same vehicle can grab the steering 
in an emergency, depends how they trust you.
                My one friend let me park his brother's bakkie in the garden 
parking about 3 m from the swimming pool.  He was outside the car, and I only 
had to move it out of the driveway and park by the pool to make space for other 
vehicles.  It was a Ford bakkie, so if I had my way I would have parked it in 
the pool and it wouldn't leak oil in the driveway, but in the pool rather.

                I guess the skid pan was fun, I drove a Nissan 3.3 v6 double 
cab on the skid pan at West bank, but my brother was in the passenger seat.  
I've never tried driving been navigated by a radio or cell phone coms, must be 
even more exciting, as no-one is in the car with you.

                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                  From: Jacob Kruger 
                  To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:59
                  Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


                  I've had people offer to ride on the back of a normal 2 
wheeled bike with me, and I tell them no!

                  They can ride another bike behind me, and use walkie talkies 
or something to instruct me, but remember that, especially on a 2 wheeled bike, 
balance, body language, etc. are part of the riding activities, so a stressed 
person on the back wouldn't help at all...LOL!

                  Riding with a side car is completely different to riding a 
normal bike, but FWIW, when Billy Baxter did a lap of donington on a Ducati, I 
think there was just someone riding behind him on another bike, and in terms of 
things like Hein Wagner, he might have had someone in the car with him - not 
sure - but could work almost as easily with someone just talking to him using a 
radio/phone etc. as long as they maintain the right positioning/alignment, etc.

                  Last time when I rode my bike across skid pan at Phakisa, I 
only got up to around 3rd gear - 70km/h, and the guys watching me were at one 
side, but had a friend talking to me over cellphone earphones inside helmet, 
and he was just telling me when to slow down, when to veer slightly left, 
slightly right, and when to stop and turn around to ride back in other 
direction - did it around 10 times in that session, but I did also have another 
friend riding a bit of distance away from me on his own bike, up and down, and 
that was him who said he wanted to be close enough in case something went 
wrong, but he didn't interfere/involve himself in my actual riding at all.

                  The friend instructing me over phone was also making jokes 
during process as well - we kept it light hearted/relaxed as well.

                  Main thing for me is due to having done around 105000km on 
that same bike in around 4 years before my accident, I don't even think about 
specific riding activities, but just think about where I want it to go...LOL!

                  If ride happens again this year, it should be on a different 
bike, but light, well balanced, nimble, well maintained etc. so can also just 
worry about environment etc. as opposed to worrying about bike itsself, and 
same with offroad bike if I ever find the suitable place to play around with it.

                  Stay well

                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                    From: Carl de Campos 
                    To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                    Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:43 AM
                    Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


                    The sidecar idea should work if you have a good 
understanding between you and your navigator.
                    I sometimes ride a quad bike with a sighted navigator on 
the back, so if worst comes to worst, he can grab my elbows to rectify any 
steering errors.
                    Thanks / Regards
                      ----- Original Message ----- 
                      From: Jacob Kruger 
                      To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                      Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:45
                      Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on riding


                      Idea is to ride bike on open road with sighted passenger 
in side car, but the other one is to ride a normal bike into parking area at 
biker daytime party/jol, and then climb off it after maybe attracting a bit of 
attention by revving it or something...all as part of the awareness joke, but 
anyway...LOL!

                      Same way have already had at least a couple of people who 
thought I was making a bad joke by using cane until they realised it was for 
real...

                      I have found that common opinion is still that blind/VI 
guys don't ever get out into/do anything in the real world...


                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                        From: Carl de Campos 
                        To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                        Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:57 AM
                        Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on 
riding


                        Ha ha, I like the idea of parking a bike/side car 
combo, and then walking with your cane into the shopping centre, can imagine 
the comments.

                        I used to go 4x4 trips with a friend, and he would let 
me drive the 4x4 through some challenging obstacles, but he was a good 
navigator, and then he would make me park it, get out, and walk around the car 
with the cane.
                          ----- Original Message ----- 
                          From: Jacob Kruger 
                          To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                          Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 07:20
                          Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on 
riding


                          Well, I have a sidecar here in my garage, and still 
just need to find the right bike to fit it to, and the idea (part of it anyway) 
is that I might be able to persuade some sighted person to sit in the side car 
and direct me while I ride the bike - although it's not quite the same.

                          Otherwise, always say at some stage, similar to how I 
get instructed when riding on the pit area of Phakisa, I want to wait until a 
busyish - but not too busy - time at a day jol, and ride into the parking area 
myself, park the bike, climb off, take my helmet off, pull out cane from inside 
my jacket, and walk up to entrance fee table - all of this just to hear the 
comments etc....LOL!

                          Lastly, how does that one song go:
                          ...open your eyes, and see me...

                          We can break their assumption barriers, but we need 
to make sure we make a good impression (mental impression, not a physical one 
<smile>)

                          Have also already had at least one guy come up to me 
while was dancing on main dance floor in front of band on stage at a bike 
rally, and tell me I just made him feel 'stupid' about ever having worried 
about having only one eye.

                          Like always say, my one friend's saying is:
                          live with it, deal with it

                          Just that some of us swap it around a bit:
                          deal with it, so you can live with it...

                            ----- Original Message ----- 
                            From: Carl de Campos 
                            To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                            Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:56 AM
                            Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview on 
riding


                            Thanks Jacob, appreciated.
                            I tend to brag a bit or sound a bit too confident 
at times, but then I love my horse and what he does for me, I feel he's worth 
bragging about.  But ja the idea is to make sighted public aware of the various 
activities blind people can do, especially if those activities are thought not 
to be blind friendly at all.

                            Ps:  When are we going to start a Blind Hells Biker 
group, as long as we have a few sighted bikers with extremely loud pipes to 
follow.
                              ----- Original Message ----- 
                              From: Jacob Kruger 
                              To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                              Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 20:14
                              Subject: [blindza] Re: Fw: Radio SAFM interview 
on riding


                              Already downloaded and listened to it, and it 
came out nice - and Carl sounds good/confident - good to let sighted people 
hear about things of this nature.

                                ----- Original Message ----- 
                                From: Carl de Campos 
                                To: blindza@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                                Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 7:40 PM
                                Subject: [blindza] Fw: Radio SAFM interview on 
riding


                                Hi list, if anyone's interested in hearing my 
chat on horse riding, on the Disability Report last night, I managed to link it 
via my web site.

                                http://carldc.net

                                Right-click on the SAFM Interview link and 
"Save Target AS", it's 5 MB.

                                ----- Original Message ----- 
                                From: Jacob Kruger 
                                To: Carl de Campos 
                                Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 19:01
                                Subject: Re: Radio SAFM interview on riding


                                Came out nice etc.
                                You're also welcome to post this to blindza 
etc. - obviously...<smile>


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