[bct] Re: Window classing? was Re: Re: Should we do a chat on improving software accessibility?

  • From: Krister Ekstrom <krister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 11:50:52 +0200

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Hi,
Window Eyes has something similar and Hal too, but in Hals case it's a
little more complicated than that, because it's part of the process of
making so called map files for programs.
/Krister

Sean Randall wrote:
> Hi Tiffany ,
> 
> As far as I know, Window classing is this:
> In JAWS, each window is a class: edit boxes, buttons, whatever.
> Many apps use common window classes provided within windows, but some
> don't.
> So to reclass a window  merely means telling JAWS what type of a window
> it is.
> If FlashFXP uses odd listboxes that don't read properly, they can then
> be reclassed as standard "listbox" windows, so that JAWS may read them
> correctly.
> 
> I hope that summarises - anyone know if other screen readers have
> something similar?
> 
> Thanks,
> Sean R.
> ...
> There is no love sincerer than the love of food. - George
> Bernard Shaw
> ...
> Email: sean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> web: http://www.randyLaptop.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tiffany Black"
> <tifflblack@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:25 PM
> Subject: [bct] Re: Should we do a chat on improving software accessibility?
> 
> 
>> Silly question, but what does reclassing windows mean?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Riddle
>> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:13 AM
>> To: blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bct] Re: Should we do a chat on improving software
>> accessibility?
>>
>> Most software is quite accessible. But what's accessible to one person
>> isn't
>> for another. For example, there's a program called flashfxp that, upon
>> installation, doesn't look all that accessible. HOwever, all it needs
>> is a
>> couple of window reclassifications and it works like a charm. In
>> short, most
>> program inaccessibility (nice eight dollar word there eh?) can be boiled
>> down to lazy users or just plain old user error. So before we whine about
>> inacccessiblity to companies, see if you can reclass windows or
>> controls in
>> the program and determine if that helps the problem.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Krister Ekstrom" <krister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 1:50 AM
>> Subject: [bct] Re: Should we do a chat on improving software
>> accessibility?
>>
>>
> Hi listers,
> I know that what i say now is politically incorrect, and i will
> probably get flamed to ashes for saying this, but i'll say it anyway.
> Sure we could do a chat on how to communicate with companies and so
> forth, but i think it won't change the situation a bit. Why? Because
> we're actually a small fraction of the market and as the majority
> rules, we won't get listened to. We may get heard, but we won't get
> listened to. We can bash the companies all we want, and they'll
> probably say: "So you're 20000? Well we have 8 gazillion people around
> the globe who use and love our software, and if you don't or can't, well
>>> tough luck".
> I'm not saying i like the situation, only that it is like that.
> Only my 2 cents.
> /Krister
> 
> 
> 
> Tiffany Black wrote:
>>>>> I think your chat's a good idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Debee
>>>>> Norling
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:27 PM
>>>>> To: Blindcooltech@Freelists. Org
>>>>> Subject: [bct] Should we do a chat on improving software accessibility?
>>>>>
>>>>> Short version: a Saturday evening chat on strategies for
>>>>> communicating with developers about how to make their software more
>>>>> accessible. Does this interest people? Should I lead it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Long version:  I am in desperate need of a DVD-Writer. My husband has
>>>>> one if I get super desperate, but I need one at work, where I scan
>>>>> books for a living so need a way to archive them, no fuss, no muss.
>>>>> I'm sick and tired of CDS and the Windows XP CD writing wizard.
>>>>>
>>>>> So yeah, you're saying, shop for a DVD-Writer; do a little research,
>>>>> buy one, get boss to reimburse you, problem solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so I shopped. I shopped in the store, I shopped online. There are
>>>>> a ton of DVD-Writers out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Every single one comes bundled with some DVD-writing software. Some
>>>>> got Nero 6, some got Nero 7, some got Nero Express, some got Nero
>>>>> something else.
>>>>> Some got a software suite from NTI. Some got a Roxio product. There
>>>>> about twenty different versions of Roxio burning thingies. Many come
>>>>> with software I've never heard of.
>>>>>
>>>>> And by the way, when my husband, a sighted electrical engineer and
>>>>> experienced computer user, installed a scaled-down Nero that came
>>>>> with his writer, it dragged in a lot of junk like the Yahoo toolbar,
>>>>> which he didn't want and had trouble removing. His Nero also
>>>>> clobbered Safe Mode, a known bug he read about online, and it took
>>>>> him hours to get his system back to the way it was before. I love
>>>>> bundled software!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> So, already I've used about six different CD-burning programs and my
>>>>> favorite one is the Linux command line tool. Rick did a great job
>>>>> with Nero, but who knows if the Nero that comes with the DVD-Writer I
>>>>> buy is even close to the Nero that he reviewed. The "express" and
>>>>> "limited" versions of a product often have a completely different
>>>>> interface.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, OK, I figure I'll just download some shareware and pick an
>>>>> accessible burner that will probably work with the hardware I plan to
>>>>> buy. Yesterday I downloaded and tried three programs, "Swift Burning
>>>>> Wizard" "Deep Burner"
>>>>> and "Zip backup to CD". All were reviewed as having a very bare-bones
>>>>> interface, using few system resources and being particularly good for
>>>>> archiving files.
>>>>>
>>>>> All of them wanted to "create projects" "create a data CD" "build a
>>>>> CD Image" and were set up for you to drag and drop icons hither and
>>> thither.
>>>>> They could create auto-run scripts and playlists and for all I know
>>>>> kitchen sinks. Why does software have all this extra and unnecessary
>>>>> complexity!
>>>>> I
>>>>> want to just select my files, and click a write to CD button. I don't
>>>>> want to create projects and mess around with a ton of dialog boxes.
>>>>> I want the program to be smart enough to cope when my data fills more
>>>>> than one CD.
>>>>> Like
>>>>> why can't a program just tell you that it will need 4 CDS and start
>>>>> burning.
>>>>>
>>>>> All three of these supposedly simple programs weren't simple, and
>>>>> more important, were not very accessible. With a lot of poking
>>>>> around, I could burn a CD, but to do it on a daily basis, in a busy
>>>>> work environment where I am constantly interrupted, forget it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I listened to Tony's cast about the inaccessibility of Spyware
>>>>> removers
>>>>> -- I have a rebuttal for that, but that's a different story -- and I
>>>>> felt very frustrated. The reality is that software is a lot less
>>>>> accessible than it used to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> So to fight back, we need to find ways to communicate with developers
>>>>> in language they understand about the problem. It isn't enough to
>>>>> say, "Dear Mr. Programmer: your software doesn't work with JAWS". We
>>>>> need to tell them exactly what doesn't work, why and how to fix it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I propose that since I like to write, and know how to program, sort
>>>>> of anyway,  that I write a draft letter to developers and then we do
>>>>> a brainstorming chat and all attempt to improve it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once we have a good letter, we can easily tailor it for our
>>>>> individual needs, and send it off to developers when we try to use an
>>>>> inaccessible program. I'd concentrate on shareware and low-cost
>>>>> software that is sold by small companies online. For example, I'd
>>>>> talk to Patrick about Spybot before I'd talk to Symantech about
>>>>> Norton Anti-virus.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your thoughts, please. Should we do a chat on this? Should I craft up
>>>>> a draft?
>>>>>
>>>>> --Debee
>>>>>
>>>>> * The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has
>>>>> occurred.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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