[bct] Re: Making things cross disability accessible

  • From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 09:48:21 -0700

Hi Tim,

Anyone with a disability who needs an issue solved ought to be willing, ready and able to help come up with solutions and test possibilities as needed. In short, we have an absolute obligation and responsibility to participate in our accomodations.

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CSSA, Network+!
Visit http://www.petitiononline.com/captcha and sign the Google Word Verification Accessibility Petition today!
Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by another person.
Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: http://www.blindaccessjournal.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Cross" <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:04 AM
Subject: [bct] Re: Making things cross disability accessible



Hi Nadia,

Yes, your quite correct about the unjustifiable hardship provision. We
have been hoping to avoid going that route as this person will
definitely try and fight things and we really hoped for an amicable
resolution, but thats now looking unlikely.

I agree with your point concerning the fallout from this type of
thing. I believe that those of us with a disability have a
responsability to leave things as good as, if not better, than we find
them. Actually, I believe this generally and not just in relation to
disabilities. While on one hand I can undrstand the frustration this
woman has, on the other, she is not attempting to assist in finding a
resolution and is likely causing problems for those who will follow
her.

Tim




Nadia Mattiazzo writes:
> Hi Tim
>
> In Australia the Disability Discrimination Act allows for a defendant > (in
> this case the university) to plead unjustifiable hardship.
>
> The other comment I think needs to be made is that whilst this > individual
> has quite high and possibly unrealistic expectations, the next person > with a
> disability who enrols at the same university is going to be judged in > the
> same light as this student and, in my experience dealing with advocacy, > that
> really happens.
>
> I really do believe there has to be a little give and take in these
> situations.
>
> Nadia
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Cross" <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 7:15 PM
> Subject: [bct] Making things cross disability accessible
>
>
> >
> > This is a very very difficult area. Just this week, I've had to deal
> > with someone who has extremely complex requirements and its proving
> > very difficult to satisfy her needs. She also has a rather unfortunate
> > attitude and personality which has not helped.
> >
> > This woman has multiple disabilities, including low vision and hearing
> > loss. She wants to enrol in a degree, but all the texts have to be
> > provided in electronic form. Thats OK. However, she needs a specific
> > font and the most difficult part, a very complex colour scheme in
> > which specific colours are used for various parts of the text and each
> > alternating paragraph has to have a different colour.
> >
> > All of this is possible from a technology perspective. However the
> > cost of creating the texts start at $30,000 per text. This cost has to
> > be paid by the institution. The degree will take a minimum of 18
> > course units and some units have multiple texts. The institution will
> > therefore have to spend a minimum of $540000. This is a lot of money
> > for a small University to spend on just one student.
> >
> > Part of the issue here is that it appears the demands this woman is
> > setting out for the text format is a bit excessive - she is able to
> > communicate and read electronic communications without the colour
> > scheme fine. there is no argument the colours do make things easier
> > for her, but at what point does this level of ease become
> > unreasonable?
> >
> > My view has always been that we are entitled to reasonable access and
> > that some of the responsibility to deal with things has to fall on the
> > person with the disability. Of course, you have the problem of
> > agreement on what is to be considered reasonable. In this case, I
> > beleive this woman is being unreasonable because she can access the
> > text and read it without the complex colour scheme. There are even
> > software solutions such a zoom text which will allow you to set the
> > colours interactively, but apparently, this is not sufficient.
> >
> > the general feeling I get from trying to find a solution for this
> > woman is that she is not prepared to compromise or work with the
> > system to find a resonable solution and I suspect this will all end up
> > in court. The basic problem I think is attitude. This woman believes
> > the world owes her and everything has to be changed to accomodate her
> > needs and she should not be required to accomodate the world. I think
> > she is a rather angry and upset person who is constantly frustrated
> > because so much of the world is not structured to meet her fairly
> > unique requirements.
> >
> > My personal beleif is there is no point in having some sort of
> > underlying expectation the world is supposed to be fair. Its actually
> > quite a harsh unfair world and each individual is only a very small
> > and rather insignificant part of it. We do have the right to expect
> > reasonable accomodation to our needs, but to a large extent, its down
> > to each individual to find solutions.
> >
> > Normally, I don't have to deal with this sort of problem - its not
> > actually my area of work or expertise. To some extent, I think I've
> > been brought in simply because I have a background in technology and
> > programming and unfortunately, because I'm the only blind person
> > employed by the institution and therefore must have some sort of
> > secret knowledge or understanding. I find this sort of thing quite
> > unfortunate and feel it probably does more damange to people with
> > disabilities than anything else. If this University had encountered
> > this woman before I applied for a job there, I suspect I would never
> > have gotten my job as the University would have been concerned
> > employing me would cost too much. As it was, there was some concern
> > when they did employ me and since there has been a number of times
> > that its been mentioned how surprised they have been regarding how
> > little it has cost to employ me and that the cost has been proven to
> > have been well worth it. In fact, now they keep trying to push things
> > at me.
> >
> > some of you are probably thinking that because of anti-discrimination
> > laws, they wouldn't have been able to not employ me due to the costs
> > of having to provide adaptive technology or workplace modifications -
> > but I find that a totally naive opinion. All that anti-discrimination
> > laws can really do is reduce the amount of obvious discrimination. If
> > an employer knows the law says you cannot refuse to employ someone due
> > to their disability, they will just say they are not employing you for
> > some other reason. So, to some extent, it hides the discrimination.
> > this doesn't mean the laws don't do some good, they do, but they only
> > really help in very obvious discrimination cases. A lot of the time,
> > the more incidious discrimination is not obvious and the law does not
> > help. In these cases, education, positive role models and first-hand
> > experience is very important and thats why I think its important as
> > someone with a disability that I do whatever I can to find solutions
> > and work within this complex and difficult world.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > Neal Ewers writes:
> > > Vince, You said, "People with visual stress, dyslexics, those with
> > > limited movement and deaf
> > > people all present different needs too, so it's no wonder things > > > aren't
> > > quite perfect yet!"
> > >
> > > What can sometimes be troubling is the hard work that goes in to > > > making
> > > something cross disability accessible. There seem to be people in > > > each
> > > disability community who will work their heads off to get something > > > they
> > > need even if it means that the product is not accessible to people > > > who
> > > have other disabilities. And there are some disability groups that > > > seem
> > > to have more clout than others. Why, for example, does the Randolph
> > > Shepard act say that people who are blind have first rights to > > > vending
> > > stands. In years past, those stands were quite small and often sold
> > > candy, smokes, etc. Now, some of them are large food service
> > > establishments. So, why is someone who is blind more qualified to > > > run
> > > such an establishment than someone who is in a wheel chair, or deaf, > > > or
> > > has no arms? But you can be assured, that if congress decided to > > > give
> > > other disability groups equal rights to this perk, a lot of people > > > who
> > > are blind would be ready to fight that change with all their might. > > > So,
> > > now you see how hard it is to work with groups of people with > > > varying
> > > disabilities. I did this at Trace all the time, and it could be > > > some of
> > > the most divisive posturing I have ever seen.
> > >
> > >
> > > Neal
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Vince > > > Thacker
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:41 PM
> > > To: blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [bct] Re: FW: Introducing DbDialog: a free, accessible > > > database
> > > manager
> > >
> > >
> > > Neal,
> > >
> > > I have to admit accessibility is a darned complicated theing, as I > > > know
> > > from
> > > trying to create accessible web pages and failing miserably > > > sometimes.
> > > People with visual stress, dyslexics, those with limited movement > > > and
> > > deaf
> > > people all present different needs too, so it's no wonder things > > > aren't
> > > quite perfect yet!
> > >
> > > Vnice.
> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Neal Ewers" <neal.ewers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 4:32 PM
> > > Subject: [bct] Re: FW: Introducing DbDialog: a free, accessible > > > database
> > >
> > > manager
> > >
> > >
> > > > Vince, you say, "When I run it I don't see any scaleable fonts, > > > > any
> > > > color contrasts."
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for pointing out that many people who may be on this > > > > list
> > > > may have some limited vision. We often get so rapped up in speech > > > > and
> > >
> > > > braille that we forget about those who need color contrast, large
> > > > text, etc. Thanks for keeping us on our toes.
> > > >
> > > > Neal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:blindcooltech-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Vince > > > > Thacker
> > > > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 9:52 AM
> > > > To: blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [bct] Re: FW: Introducing DbDialog: a free, accessible
> > > > database manager
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've had a quick look at this and have to ask my usual question, > > > > "What
> > >
> > > > do you mean by accessible?"
> > > >
> > > > When I run it I don't see any scaleable fonts, any colour > > > > contrasts or
> > >
> > > > even a single Tooltip. Every time I press anything I get an error
> > > > message that
> > > > is basically a line of code with ifs and thens.
> > > >
> > > > Very ppor job in my opinion.
> > > > Vince.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jamie Pauls" <jamiepauls@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <accesscomp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <blindcooltech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:35 PM
> > > > Subject: [bct] FW: Introducing DbDialog: a free, accessible > > > > database
> > > > manager
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >> [mailto:blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > >
> > > >> Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
> > > >> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:40 PM
> > > >> To: blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > >> Subject: Introducing DbDialog: a free, accessible database > > > >> manager
> > > >>
> > > >> Now available at
> > > >> http://www.empowermentzone.com/dbdsetup.exe
> > > >>
> > > >> Since developing database applications under DOS in the early > > > >> 1990s,
> > > >> I have had a goal of developing them under Windows. Thus, I am
> > > >> pleased to announce
> > > >> DbDialog: a free database manager. It achieves a high level of > > > >> both
> > > >> functionality and accessibility by exploiting capabilities of
> > > standard
> > > >> Windows controls.
> > > >>
> > > >> The program supports tables of records in Microsoft Access > > > >> format.
> > > >> Once a table is defined, records may be created, modified, > > > >> browsed,
> > > >> searched, and output in an efficient manner. Initially, sample
> > > >> tables
> > > >
> > > >> are defined for tracking contacts, events, and albums. Complete
> > > >> documentation is available in an HTML file with structured > > > >> headings.
> > > >>
> > > >> I welcome feedback and contributions toward the improvement of
> > > >> DbDialog.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Jamal
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> BlindTech is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To find out about > > > >> the
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
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> > > >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date:
> > > > 2/20/2006
> > > >>
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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>





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