Re: WINDOWS OR MAC? APPLE SAYS BOTH

  • From: Darcy Burnard <darcyburnard@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:47:16 -0400 (EDT)

Hi. Believe it or not, I actually agree with you guys to a point. While I wouldn't say this thread has devolved in to a pissing contest, it has gotten rather tiresome. Not only that, but I don't think it had any business being on the list in the first place. What exactly does the mac or boot camp have to do with podcasting anyway?
However, since the thread has started, I do have some thoughts.
As some of you know, I really want a Mac, and with luck, I'll have one by mid July. I've been lurking on the mac visionaries list for nearly a year now. A couple of months back, I did get the opportunity to play with a Mac for about an hour. With all that, I probably could have defended voice over on this thread, but I really didn't feel qualified to do that.
I'm not sure I would agree with the style of Gaib's messages, but I can certainly understand why he said what he said. Ever since the introduction of voice over, the blindness lists have been flooded with people saying it isn't any good. Many of these people are basing that assertion on second or third hand information. Still others dismiss voiceover because it's nothing like any screen reader they're used to. Different does not always equal bad. When you're constantly told by people with no first hand experience that a program you really like has limitations, it's only natural to come out with guns blazing. I would probably have a similar reaction if the topic was about window-eyes or speakup. By the way, when I say first hand experience, I mean someone who has had a Mac for several months, and depends on it for their daily computing tasks. Playing with a product for an hour as I did, or seeing it for a few minutes at a trade show, really doesn't give you a full sense of its capabilities.
Finally, I want to say that I don't know for sure if voice over will meet my needs. It may not, who knows. For me it's worth the wrisk, but it may not be for everyone, which is cool. To each his own.
Okay, this message ended up a little longer then I'd planned. Hopefully it doesn't start the debate up again, because that wasn't my intent. Especially since as I said at the top, it really has nothing to do with podcasting.
Darcy



On Sun, 9 Apr 2006, Chris Skarstad wrote:

This is becoming a pissing contest.

At 04:16 AM 4/9/2006, you wrote:
really, do you know this to be a fact? what about programs written in
carbon?
BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net
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On Apr 8, 2006, at 7:22 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote:

Hi Gabe,

Even if an app isn't technically supported by a Windows screen
reader like JAWS or Window-Eyes, there may still be a chance that
it might work well enough.  You don't get that option with
VoiceOver.  If the app isn't written in Apple's Coco programming
language, there's no OSM and you're totally out of luck.


Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator! A+, CSSA, Network+! Visit http://www.petitiononline.com/captcha and sign the Google Word Verification Accessibility Petition today! Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by another person. Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: http:// www.blindaccessjournal.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net" <blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 1:12 PM Subject: Re: WINDOWS OR MAC? APPLE SAYS BOTH


ok lets look at this in a different angle.

compared to the billions of windows apps out there, how many are
actually supported by jaws?
BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net
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website: http://blindtechs.net
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On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Darrell Shandrow wrote:

Hi Gabe,

Nobody is saying any such thing.  Some of us are just concerned
that Apple really doesn't care very much about VoiceOver, other
than for the purpose of retaining its education business.  You
have  to admit that the application support here is very weak.
What is  the point if the screen reader doesn't work with many apps?


Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator! A+, CSSA, Network+! Visit http://www.petitiononline.com/captcha and sign the Google Word Verification Accessibility Petition today! Information should be accessible to us without need of translation by another person. Blind Access Journal blog and podcast: http:// www.blindaccessjournal.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net" <blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 1:54 AM Subject: Re: WINDOWS OR MAC? APPLE SAYS BOTH


wow, thats just like saying, "Hey you blind mac users, you all
are  a bunch of idiots and you're really not using a real full
functioning screen reader."

kind of rude, you think?
BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net
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website: http://blindtechs.net
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On Apr 7, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Allison Mervis wrote:

I'd love Apple to seriously works on developments towards
making Voiceover a full functioning integrated screen reader so
that I   could just buy a Mac.
Allison

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Claypool"
<bellevue.bat@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: WINDOWS OR MAC? APPLE SAYS BOTH


I've been away for 3 or so days, and I'm already out of the loop.

I'd love to see a way where one could run the mac os and just
load windows apps as needed.  Now that'd be shweet.

Rick
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shelly"
<shellyspodcasts@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: WINDOWS OR MAC? APPLE SAYS BOTH


Apple's Boot Camp was released this week. The early reviews of Windows XP stability, as well as driver support have been good, but it's too early to draw conclusions. It's worth pointing out that this is an Apple produced and sanctioned approach, not a hack. I can't attest to the stability of screen readers or other specific applications. But it is reasonable to expect a high degree of stability from this boot loader approachl, especially when the tool becomes available as part of the Leopard operating system. Releasing Boot Camp on its own at this time does a number of things for Apple: it allows them to get a lot of testing done by its customers for free, and it shows the company's commitment to multiple OSes on the Mac hardware platform.

Much more to come on this, I'm sure.

-shelly

On 4/6/06, Richard Claypool <bellevue.bat@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You can get windows to run, but it's a bitch, and I'd guess not stable yet.

It has to do with the fact that the new macs support a
different .. newwer
standard of booting that windows doesn't support as yet.

There've been hacks to get windows running on the mac, but
I'd really be
scaired to try to get it running with a screenreader and
expect  any
stability.

Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Guerra" <stephen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: WINDOWS OR MAC? APPLE SAYS BOTH


> Do not think so > > > Stephen A. Guerra > Assistive Technology Specialist > Independent Living Aids > 200 Robbins Lane > Jericho, NY 11753 > E-Mail: can-do@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > www.independentliving.com > www.annmorris.com > www.soundbytes.com > Phone: (516) 937-1848 > Fax: (516) 937-3906 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Allison Mervis > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:27 PM > To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: WINDOWS OR MAC? APPLE SAYS BOTH > > > I assume that we could potentially load jaws on to the Mac and use it > with XP, and then play with voiceover every now and then. Allison > > > > > >




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