[bksvol-discuss] Re: the ellipsis
- From: "Lynn I" <lynnskyi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:43:29 -0600
Hi Cindy,
Please delete the spaces, it makes for much nicer reading even with screen
readers.
Blessings.
Lynnsky
Happy moments, praise God.
Difficult moments, seek God.
Quiet moments, worship God.
Painful moments, trust God.
Every moment, thank God.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:39 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] the ellipsis
Does that mean, then, that it isn't necessary to
delete the spaces between? In fact it would be better
to leave them? Now I am confused. I thought it was for
braille readers that we were eliminating the spaces.
smile
Cindy
--- Jill O'Connell <jillocon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Cindy, My screen reader presently says dot, dot, dot
> regardless of whether
> there are spaces or not. It's only by using my
> braille display that I know
> whether or not there are spaces. If there aren't, I
> see periods; if there
> are I see an elipsis.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Rosenthal" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:09 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> gramatical publications say about
> the ellipsis.
>
>
> > After reading all the posts I decided to read what
> > Mayrie wrote, which I had skipped because I
> understood
> > ellipses.
> >
> > Basically, the irst sources she quotes have to do
> with
> > the uses of ellipses rather than how they are
> written.
> > I have never seen them in a print book without
> spaces
> > between them, except, of course, that when they
> follow
> > the end of a sentence the period at the end of the
> > sentence is a period and so no space would precede
> it.
> > Bringhurst's book is written for
> typographer--people
> > who set type for printing books and newspapers,
> though
> > less and less of that is being done these days.
> She
> > doesn't note, nor did I look up, when that was
> > written.
> >
> > But for purposes of our Braille readers, it seems
> that
> > no spaces between the dots is preferable, and so
> I've
> > been deleting them when validating, i.e., now that
> the
> > new site is coming online, proofreading. I don't
> know
> > what daisy readers hear--do the voices say
> ellipses or
> > do they say dot space dot space dot space. If the
> > latter, I suppose it would be preferable to her
> dot
> > dot dot.smile (Am I write that Daisy is audio?)
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> >
> > --- Julia <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Oh, ok, that's good to know.
> >> Thanks. Write to me off list when you get a
> chance.
> >> Julia
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:35 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> >> gramatical publications say about
> >> the ellipsis.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hi Julia,
> >> >
> >> > The upshot is that depending upon who you ask,
> the
> >> ellipsis is
> >> > supposed to be represented either with or
> without
> >> spaces separating the
> >> > dots. So, whichever way people choose to do
> it,
> >> they're correct as far as
> >> > visual representation is concerned. At least,
> >> that's what I understood.
> >> >
> >> > Mayrie
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of Julia
> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:22 PM
> >> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What several
> >> gramatical publications say
> >> > about
> >> > the ellipsis.
> >> >
> >> > Wow, this is very complicated, and if I may say
> >> so, quite technical and
> >> > confusing. Maybe if I knew unicode it would
> make
> >> more sense.
> >> > Julia
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:30 PM
> >> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What several
> gramatical
> >> publications say about
> >> > the
> >> >
> >> > ellipsis.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Guys,
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh, boy! The ellipsis gets complicated if you
> >> look into it. Here
> >> >> are some statements that I found about its
> usage
> >> and how it can and
> >> >> should
> >> >> be typed.
> >> >>
> >> >> Have fun!
> >> >>
> >> >> See below.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mayrie
> >> >>
> >> >> In English
> >> >>
> >> >> The style and use varies in the English
> language.
> >> >> The Chicago Manual of Style
> >> >> suggests the use of an ellipsis for any
> omitted
> >> word, phrase, line, or
> >> >> paragraph from within a quoted passage. There
> are
> >> two commonly used
> >> >> methods
> >> >> of using
> >> >> ellipses: one uses three dots for any
> omission,
> >> while the second makes a
> >> >> distinction between omissions within a
> sentence
> >> (using three dots: .?.?.)
> >> >> and
> >> >> omissions between sentences (using a period
> and a
> >> space followed by three
> >> >> dots: . .?.?.). An ellipsis at the end of a
> >> sentence with no sentence
> >> >> following
> >> >> should be followed by a period (for a total of
> >> four dots). The
> >> >> Modern Language Association
> >> >> (MLA) however, used to indicate that an
> ellipsis
> >> must include spaces
> >> >> before
> >> >> and after each dot in all uses. If an ellipsis
> is
> >> meant to represent an
> >> >> omission,
> >> >>
> >> >> square brackets
> >> >> must surround the ellipsis to make it clear
> that
> >> there was no pause in
> >> >> the
> >> >> original quote: [ .?.?. ]. Currently, the MLA
> has
> >> removed the requirement
> >> >> of
> >> >> brackets in their style handbooks. However,
> the
> >> use of brackets is still
> >> >> correct as it clears confusion.
> >> >> [1]
> >> >>
> >> >> According to Robert Bringhurst's
> >> >> Elements of Typographic Style
> >> >> , the details of typesetting ellipses depend
> on
> >> the character and size of
> >> >> the font being set and the typographer's
> >> preference. Bringhurst writes
> >> >> that
> >> >> a
> >> >> full space between each dot is "another
> Victorian
> >> eccentricity. In most
> >> >> contexts, the Chicago ellipsis is much too
> wide"
> >> ? he recommends using
> >> >> flush
> >> >> dots,
> >> >> or
> >> >> thin-spaced
> >> >> dots (up to one-fifth of an
> >> >> em
> >> >> ), or the prefabricated ellipsis character (
> >> >> Unicode
> >> >> U+2026,
> >> >> Latin entity
> >> >> …). Bringhurst suggests that normally
> an
> >> ellipsis should be spaced
> >> >> fore-and-aft to separate it from the text, but
> >> when it combines with
> >> >> other
> >> >> punctuation,
> >> >> the leading space disappears and the other
> >> punctuation follows. He
> >> >> provides
> >> >> the following examples:
> >> >>
> >> >> i?? j
> >> >> k?.
> >> >> l?, l
> >> >> l,?? l
> >> >> m??
> >> >> n?..!
> >> >>
> >> >> In legal writing in the United States, Rule
> 5.3
> >> in the
> >> >> Bluebook
> >> >> citation guide governs the use of ellipses and
> >> requires a space before
> >> >> the
> >> >> first dot and between the two subsequent dots.
> If
> >> an ellipsis ends the
> >> >> sentence,
> >> >> then there are three dots, each separated by a
> >> space, followed by the
> >> >> final
> >> >> punctuation.
> >> >>
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