[bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage

Hello Rui, 

I think this is a good approach. From what I have gathered the group at BS
work hard and do want things to go well. It is puzzling that we hear so
little from them. It was suggested a weekly or bi monthly update would be
nice. Some real reasons on why they insist on keep the stripper when it
seems there are many that hate it. 

BookShare peoples? 
Can we have some input? 


Kaitlyn
Level III Practitioner 
Reconnective healing and the Reconnection
Level 1 Reiki healing
Kaitlyn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Life is an inside job and light and love is everything:)

-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rui
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 2:56 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage

Good Afternoon:
It appears I have hit a nerve with yesterday's post.
To that end, I'm glad.
However now that many people have made their views clear, (one after the 
other) let us give Bookshare a chance to respond before going further.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage


>
> Dear Charlyn and Bookshare community,
>
> I think a petition is an excellent idea.  Charlyn, would you like to put 
> it
> together?  Rui, would you put it on the Bookshare Scans site?
>
> I also think we should select a day to make phone calls and send emails to
> the Bookshare staff calling on them to turn off the stripper.   How about
> Thursday, July 28, one week after this most recent stripper discussion
> began.
>
> We need to take in the fact that, as Bookshare volunteers and users, we 
> must
> have direct say on policy issues.  Right now this list is virtually the 
> only
> vehicle we have for reaching the staff, and it is clearly ineffective. 
> The
> stripper issue highlights a need for a more formalized means of
> communication.  Maybe we should develop an advisory committee which can
> bring concerns to the staff and have a real voice in policymaking.
>
> As blind people, most of us have grown up with the sense that we're lucky 
> to
> get whatever reading matter is offered to us.  We had better be 
> appreciative
> and not complain.  On the title page of every book from the National 
> Library
> Service we read that the book has been produced for the blind and 
> physically
> handicapped "with the kind permission of the publisher."  That line about
> "the kind permission" says so much!  Do sighted people need anyone's kind
> permission in order to read?  I AM in fact extraordinarily grateful to the
> volunteers and others who have spent countless hours putting books into
> Braille and recorded formats for us, and to those who have worked to 
> change
> copyright laws and make our special-format books possible!  Most of us 
> would
> not be literate, educated, contributing members of society without their
> help!  But I think that our lifelong dependence upon others to provide us
> with books, and the constant feeling that we must be grateful and that we
> can't expect too much, do take a toll.
>
> Bookshare is different.  Bookshare is a program which is not only FOR us,
> but BY us.  We, the volunteers, determine what books go into the 
> collection,
> and we ourselves make them available.  We are not "only volunteers" who 
> have
> no right to determine policy.  We are the backbone of the program - a
> program which is created to meet our needs and those of other blind and
> print-disabled people.  The Bookshare staff are not users of Bookshare
> materials.  They do not live with the inaccessibility of print; they don't
> experience our issues from the inside.  It is absolutely essential that 
> they
> listen to what we have to say.
>
> Bookshare is an incredible program, and I believe in it utterly.  It has 
> the
> potential to narrow the print gap for us as no other program ever has
> before.  But we need to take a stand and insist that it be the quality
> program we all deserve.
>
> Debbie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlene" <caota@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 12:11 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage
>
>
>> Maybe we could put together a pteition of some sort and put a notice on
>> the volunteer website as well to see if we could get enough people to
>> sign it to send to bookshare requesting them to stop using the program.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pam Quinn
>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:02 PM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage
>>
>>
>> We take pride in our submissions and I just don't think a lot of the
>> bookshare staff understands how angry and frustrated we are when we see
>> that our submissions have been mangled. And for what? I just don't get
>> it. Why do they insist on holding on to that useless program that nobody
>> wants? Seems to me if anything, dropping it would mean one less step and
>> less work in putting the books on the site.
>>
>> I use chapter headings for my breaking points in .mp3 files too, when
>> I'm lucky enough to have them.
>>
>> It might not be our decision and they might not want to listen to us,
>> but that would be unfortunate, because the volunteers and subscribers
>> have a major role in determining the future of bookshare.
>>
>> Pam
>>
>> Original message:
>>
>>
>>
>> >I have seriously considered not submitting some books I have scanned
>> >just
>> >because I thought they would be of little use after the stripper
>> finished
>> >with them.  I put a lot of work in to what I submit and it is really
>> >upsetting to see the final result when my original looked so nice, and
>> that
>> >is only a volunteer's view.  I also am upset by the messes that I come
>> >accross when I am reading, even for pleasure.  I use the chapter
>> headings
>> >as my MP3 creation breaking points, so if they aren't there I have a
>> big
>> >mess!
>> >
>> >I don't really like throwing fits, and I won't on this list because it
>> >seems to serve little purpose, but the fits are completely justified.
>> >
>> >If i submitted a book in DAISY and BRF format instead of in RTF would
>> >the
>> >normal automated processes be skipped?  That is the only thing I can
>> think
>> >of to rescue books where the headers, headings, and page numbers are
>> >invaluable.
>> >
>> >Sarah Van Oosterwijck
>> >Assistive Technology Trainer http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817@xxxxxxx>
>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:10 PM
>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper and colatteral damage
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hear, hear!  I agree 200%!
>> >>
>> >> We have been telling the Bookshare staff about our concerns, politely
>>
>> >> but firmly, literally for years.  Despite all the talk, nothing has
>> >> changed. I am beginning to think we need to take stronger action.  We
>>
>> >> ARE volunteers.
>> >> We do not have to contribute the thousands of hours we put into this
>> >> program.  And Bookshare cannot survive without us.  Do we need to say
>> we
>> >> will have to stop scanning and validating until we know that someone
>> out
>> >> there is really listening to us, and taking action?  It should not
>> have
>> >> to
>> >> come down to threats and strikes, but many of us are at our wit's
>> end.
>> >> What
>> >> is it going to take to turn off the stripper and stop mangling the
>> books
>> >> we
>> >> work so hard to make available?
>> >>
>> >> Debbie
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Rui" <goldwave@xxxxxxx>
>> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:16 AM
>> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] stripper and colatteral damage
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Good Afternoon:
>> >>>
>> >>> At the bookshare users meeting at NFB, I made it very clear to Jim
>> >>> (like
>> >> he didn't know already) the issues with the stripper and why i think
>> >> it should be removed.
>> >>>
>> >>> The whole concept of the stripper bothers me, not just the fact it
>> >>> does
>> >> more than it's supposed too.
>> >>>
>> >>> Its very reason for being agrivates me.
>> >>> Regular print books have headers, some have footers, that is part of
>>
>> >>> a
>> >> print book.
>> >>> If we want digital copies of print books then, take the good with
>> >>> the
>> >>> bad.
>> >>> Do not sanitize the book to make it more access technology friendly.
>>
>> >>> The
>> >> very fact that is accessible already does that.
>> >>> If i don't want to read the headers, i can strip them out myself or
>> >>> use
>> >>> my
>> >> own automated tool to do so.
>> >>> However,  If by chance I do want them there, I simply do not get
>> >>> that
>> >> option with Bookshare!!!
>> >>>
>> >>> Words do not do justice to how much this issue ticks me off.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bottomline, this process does not serve the community that it was
>> >>> designed
>> >> to assist.
>> >>> -- Rui
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > From: Mike Pietruk <pietruk@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >>> > Date: 2005/07/21 Thu AM 11:00:39 EDT
>> >>> > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: stripper
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Pam
>> >>> >
>> >>> > agreed!  It's inconsistent and unpredictable.  And the problems
>> >>> > relative
>> >>> > to it have been discussed repeatedly.
>> >>> > The Powers-that-be are all too aware of the damage the stripper
>> has
>> >> caused
>> >>> > but seem to have shoved it on the back burner probably due to more
>>
>> >>> > pressing issues to deal with. It is a shame that it cannot be
>> >>> > dealt with; but Marissa, prior to her leaving, pretty much
>> >>> > outlined where it stands. So I wouldn't expect much change
>> >>> > regarding the stripper as any change would require some sort of
>> >>> > policy change plus programmer action. Conceptually, the stripper
>> >>> > makes sense; practically, it has been a
>> >> dismal
>> >>> > failure breading as much (or perhaps even more) than it has
>> >>> > repaired. It's not our decision as we are volunteers, not
>> >>> > decision-makers.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> >> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.2/52 - Release Date:
>> 7/19/2005
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 




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