[bksvol-discuss] Re: paragraphs--indented or line skipped between?

Hi Cindy:
I see you received a couple good opinions on paragraphs so I will skip that one. Now for your question on daisy and JAWS: Daisy and JAWS are not the same, I will atemp to explain. Daisy is a type of formatting (so to speak), when a book is properly marked up for it and you have the proper software or hardware to read it, you can jump by chapter, heading, page, phrase, sentence, line word or character. Victor has a software program that can be down loaded and along with a speach synthesizer you can read a daisy book on your computer, you can also use Kurzweil or OpenBook and maybe others. Now for hardware devices there are at least 3 I know of: BookPort, BookCourier and Victor Stream that handle daisy files. JAWS is a software program that reads computer screens, that is a simplified answer, because it does much more.
I hope this helps, I know it could be explained beter.
George R. Marshall
marshall.geoma4@xxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message ----- From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:58 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: paragraphs--indented or line skipped between?


Then there are those who read in Braille, and sighted
members who maybe read enlarged on their computers
or..Are Daisy and Jaws the same thing?

So, Jake, is it preferable to indent paragraphs rather
than skip lines between? If bookshare closes blank
lines, and it's desirable to teach children,
especially, that a new paragraph should be indented,
wouldn't indenting be best to do?

If one sets the First Line Indent .2 or .3 (in Word)
rather than using tabs or the space bar, will the
indentation space be preserved?

G.Cindy


--- Jake Brownell <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Mayrie is essentially correct. The tool that
converts books to DAISY
identifies paragraphs by a new line. It does not
matter whether there's
multiple new lines (blank lines) or an indentation,
it will still be marked
as a paragraph.

For example, here's what info might be shown in the
DAISY file for the above
paragraph:

<p id="exampleParagraph">Mayrie is essentially
correct. The tool that
converts books to DAISY identifies paragraphs by a
new line. It does not
matter whether there's multiple new lines or an
indentation, it will still
be marked as a paragraph.</p>

Then, the software that reads the DAISY file will
decide exactly how a
paragraph should be rendered. For example when
opening a DAISY book in
internet explorer and using a screen reader there is
a "blank line" between
paragraphs.

The only potential problem that arises is when there
are more newlines than
there should be. For example, paragraphs often span
multiple lines in
printed books. OCR programs can be configured to
retain the "exact" layout,
which means that the program puts a newline at the
end of every printed line
rather than only at the end of paragraphs.

For example notice
that this text is on
multiple lines when it is
clearly text that is meant
to be together. When text
like this is converted, the extra
new lines cause lots of paragraphs.

Again, here's the above paragraph written as it
might appear in DAISY.

<p id="paragraph1">For example notice</p>

<p id="paragraph2">that this text is on</p>

<p id="paragraph3">multiple lines when it is</p>

<p id="paragraph4">clearly text that is meant</p>

<p id="paragraph5">to be together. When text</p>

<p id="paragraph6">like this is converted, the
extra</p>

<p id="paragraph7">new lines cause lots of
paragraphs.</p>

This can give some TTS engines problems, causing
jerky reading. As you might
guess, books formatted like this would also be next
to impossible to
navigate by paragraph. Gerald Hovas contributed some
tips to my unofficial
website that provide automated procedures that can
usually fix up a book
that has this symptom.

I hope this gives some insight into our process and
wasn't overly complex.

Best regards,
Jake

Jake Brownell
QA Engineer, Bookshare.org
jake.b@xxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mrenae@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:20 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: paragraphs--indented
or line skipped between?


> Hi Rita,
>
>         I believe that Bookshare's tools remove
any extra blank lines.
>
>         I hope that Jake or Pratik will weigh in
on this topic.  But this
> is what I remember having read.  It makes no
difference whether you leave
> blank lines or indentations in your files.  Here
is the deal.  Whether you
> leave an extra blank line or indent the
paragraphs, the hard return at the
> end of a paragraph is the marker that the daisy
tools look for and use to
> know where the paragraphs end and subsequently
begin.  /All extra tabs,
> spaces, and blank lines are stripped.  So, any
extra work that you all go
> to inserting these things is wasted, because only
the hard returns that
> denote the end/beginning of a paragraph in an rtf
document are used to
> tell the daisy where paragraphs are.  All other
formatting is lost.  So,
> don't knock yourself out with formatting involving
extra blank lines, or
> spaces.  It will be stripped anyway.
>
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I am
almost positive that Jake and
> or Pratik have said this before when the subject
has come up.
>
> Peace,
> Mayrie

 To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject
line.  To get a list of available commands, put the
word 'help' by itself in the subject line.




***WISH LIST (CALLED REQUESTED ADDITIONS TO THE BOOKSHARE COLLECTION)IS AVAILABLE AT
http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/Book_Requests.htm
http://www.friendsofbookshare.org/
http://studentpages.alma.edu/~07jmyate/book_requests.htm

A LIST OF BOOKS CURRENTLY BEING SCANNED IS AVAILABLE AT http://people.delphiforums.com/jamiecalton/scanning.html

Jake's site for useful links: http://www.jbrownell.com/bkslinks.html



____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.



To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line.  To get a list of 
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.

Other related posts: