Hi Lori, Thank you for your very thoughtful and insightful notes. As you stated, The "hold for" really isn't the issue for me; it's how to know if I have done a good validation and how to improve. My apologies to all for not having the wherewithal to stay out of a discussion. I shouldn't have reacted to a "trigger". In doing so I feel that I have alienated people who have given me a lot of support as a new volunteer. It's no one's fault that I'm the type of person who wants/needs some type of measurement that lets me know if I am or am not doing a good job. I do most definitely want to do and give my best to Bookshare! You thanked me for my direct support to you, and I really appreciate that. But, you and Mike have always been very supportive of me, and it feels good when I can give back, even though it was in a very small way, I enjoyed being able to help, and it was no trouble at all. There are so many others who have shown their support, and I really appreciate this. I'm learning, but if I can help someone or answer a question, I'm very happy to do so because this is the way I've been treated on this list and in the room, with respect. Hopefully as I continue to learn, I'll b able to be more helpful to others. Again, thank you for being able to see parts of both sides of issues and put them into perspective. I appreciate that more than I can say! To all on the list, I'm definitely putting this topic not just to bed but underneath the bed, as far under as I can shove it! Again, my apologies for overreacting, and I do appreciate the support I have received. I'll be back on list in a couple of days so everyone take care! Again, Lori, THANK YOU! Sincerely, Cindy 4 "Success is loving life and daring to live it". - Maya Angelou _____ From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lori Castner Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:08 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: hold for revisited Hi, After reading Monica's post, I want to be sure that people understand that I do not feel that there is any discrimination among bookshare volunteers. However, also n response to Monica's comments, it is not always easy for a new volunteer, employee, any group member, to become part of a network, and I do think that essentially validating is an individual project--which is essentially good for me as I tend to be a loner. But that being said, it is not always easy to know the best way to get feedback on progress. These comments have little to do with the hold for issue. Cat Lover Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: Lori Castner <mailto:loralee.castner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:33 AM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: hold for revisited Cindy, I very much agree with your points I think that in some ways new validators are really on their own; of course, we have the manual and information from this list, but when we validate a book we just have to hope it will come out well. I submitted a book a while back and requested on this list that if someone on the list took the book to validate that I would appreciate feedback about my submission; I did all the things to the book that I would do when validating it. I hoped that sort of feedback would confirm the success of what I am doing. That book is still out for validation--which is fine--but don't know if I will ever hear. I think that this discussion gives us an opportunity to share our views, but really it won't change anything. Also, I have very much appreciated the support that you have given directly to me. Cat Lover Lori ----- Original Message ----- From: groups Warford <mailto:groups_warford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: hold for revisited Hi Monica, I do understand your points as far as percentages go. However, I do respectfully disagree. What I and other new members of the rowing club have to fight is the perception that we couldn't row well and basically never will be able to row well. This perception was held by the long-term members and unfortunately by the Executive Director at the time. So, for example, I was told that I couldn't row in windy conditions without ever having been tested to see if that were true. It turned out that I am one of the better people in rowing in windy conditions because I'm not afraid of the water, and being blind, the waves that are kicked up aren't an added distraction the way they are for a sighted person. We had one guy join the club and won a silver medal at the Southeast regional championships. However, none of the long-term members thought he could. And, even when he did, he was looked at as a threat (this part, the threat, is not like Bookshare). So, basically the rowing club had no way for someone to prove and improve their skill level so that a long-term member would know the newer people could b trusted. So, what I'm feeling here from this discussion is that I, as a new validator, don't know how to win people's trust. What do I need to do to show that I can or can't handle a book with scripture and so on? It's very subjective. As far as a submitter and a validator who are used to working with each other being able to talk in the room or on the phone or via Skype, what prevents a new validator from being able to do the same if given the chance? Honestly, I really don't know who puts "hold for" a lot, and I never thought and still don't think of you as doing so. However, Dave's message did, as I said, strike a chord and I felt much like I do with the rowing club. Everything is subjective and how do I improve and how do others know I have improved? I mean this very respectfully, and I expect our opinions will never mesh. That's fine with me; just please don't take my opinions personally and I will try to follow my own advice. Thanks for taking the time to write,. I always learn from your insights and experience, and I thank you very much for that! Cindy 4 _____ From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Monica Willyard Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:43 PM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: hold for revisited Hi, Cindy. I do understand what you are saying. I think there is a big difference in what's happening here and in your rowing club. Here's why. There are literally over 400 books which do not have a hold on them that a new volunteer is welcome to work on. The holds make up a fairly small portion of the step 1 list at any given time. Right now, there are 431 books on step 1. There are 10 books with holds on them. That's less than two percent of the total of books available for validation. I could understand your concerns if we were seeing over a hundred holds on step 1 and new volunteers could only work on the textbooks floating around on step 1. Most of us who submit books actually upload quite a lot of books without holds. For example, three of the last five books I've submitted haven't had any holds on them. The other two books had holds because the books were needed in a time-sensitive manner, one for a book club and one because it's a Christmas book. When we have the opportunity to work with someone on a specific project, I think we should have the freedom to choose to work as we see fit. We can do the hold thing, or we could just call a person on the phone and upload our book while we're talking so they can grab it immediately. The result would be the same, though you wouldn't see "hold for" on the website. It would just take something that's done openly and push it underground, emphasizing the kind of cliquish behavior Dave wrote about in his post. I can't speak for anyone else here. I'd rather see the holds done openly so we all know what's going on and who is doing what. I don't think this is an issue unless the holds reach the thirty percent level or more, or if they are used to prevent someone from validating at all. I just don't see that happening. Monica Willyard groups Warford wrote: Hi Dave, I usually don't really enjoy controversy, but this strikes a chord with me. In a lot of ways I agree with you.