[bksvol-discuss] Re: agressive dogs
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 23:37:15 -0800 (PST)
One of the books I validated, probably for Shelley who
seems to be the dog book person--was about a woman who
is lke the horse whisperer--ahd solves, or retrains,
people's dogs. It was very intereesting, because it
consists of chapters of dog problems and how she
resolves them--like The Nanny program on television.
Anyway, validating that is where I learned about alpha
males and when my daughter first got her dog and it
seemed not to be behaving, I got her a copy of the
book and she learned and her husband learned to be the
alphas--and Charlie became a much better behaved dog.
smile
Cindy
--- Elizabeth and Burton <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Similarly not all people who have guide dogs ought
> to have
> shepherds. Reality is, shepherdd dogs will get away
> with all kinds of
> things if they think they can be alpha. Only a
> certain kind of person can
> deal with the kind of absolutely consistent training
> needed. Labs by
> contrast are much more social in general but have
> other issues (read just
> love garbage and scavenging.) I must say and I know
> I am showing my
> prejudice that I have know a great many small poorly
> behaved truly annoying
> dogs. Does the smallness have something to do with
> it? Or the
> inbreeding? They may look cute but seem to suffer
> from emotional and
> mental problems like the inbred royalty of the
> Europe in the middle ages.
> (grin)
>
> At 12:21 AM 12/5/2006, you wrote:
> >Cindy, can I just input my opinion here? In regards
> to beagles, first and
> >foremost is that their stubborn. I have a purebreed
> one myself and
> >although he's mellowed a lot since puppyhood, he
> still does things that
> >annoy me. No matter how much I give him a time-out,
> he'll continue to do
> >his bad behavior.
> >
> >Back in the day when we were going to puppy
> training, I fortunately had a
> >trainer who had two beagles of her own. And she
> said you had to train them
> >from the minute you got them, or else it would be a
> battle from then on,
> >because beagles are stubborn little dickens. One
> example she gave was with
> >her older beagle. They trained her from a puppy to
> accept someone cutting
> >her nails by giving her treats and then slowly
> taking the treats away.
> >Eventually that dog would allow anyone to cut her
> nails with no problem
> >and no treats. But, her younger dog was obtained
> from the Humane Society,
> >and although they tried the same technique, even in
> adulthood, the dog had
> >to be sat in front of the TV and hand-fed treats as
> someone cut their nails.
> >
> >Sorry that was an essay, but when it comes to
> beagles, I go overboard. I
> >love my rascal beagle, even if his head is harder
> than mine. Haha.
> >
> >Natalie B.
> >
> >P.S. I could be wrong, but I don't think there are
> any beagle guide dogs.
> >Or are there? I did hear of a service horse once,
> so I guess anything is
> >possible.
> >
> >"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I
> cannot change,
> >courage to change the things I can,
> >and the wisdom to know the difference."
> >-Reinhold Niebuhr
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Grandma Cindy"
> <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 6:59 PM
> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] agressive dogs
> >
> >
> >>I don't think I've ever seen a small guide dog,
> like
> >>a beagle. DO they have to be a certain size?
> >>
> >>I ask because I was wondering about the size of
> the
> >>dog at the convention that you talk about,
> Shelley. My
> >>daughter's beagle mix has a Napoleonic complex, I
> >>think. She barks and lunges and tries to get at
> bigger
> >>dogs--but not those of equal size or smaller dogs.
> >>Dori and Mark got her from a pound, so they didn't
> >>train her from puppyhood, though they did think
> she
> >>was younger than it turns out she was. And they
> have
> >>tried to change the behavior--but it's as if she's
> >>trying to assert herself, either because of her
> size
> >>or because she's female and a feminist? smile
> >>
> >>Cindy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--- "Shelley L. Rhodes" <juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>Actually, smile.
> >>>
> >>>Elizabeth, I beg to differ, have seen aggressive
> >>>dogs come out of all the
> >>>schools. Even ones that are tested still end up
> out
> >>>in society. And a lot
> >>>of the behaviors that are displayed come from the
> >>>dog being around a new and
> >>>often unusual person not their trainer.
> >>>
> >>>I have met aggressive dogs in all the breeds,
> Labs,
> >>>goldens, and GSDs, both
> >>>towards people and other animals.
> >>>
> >>>I remember this one lab once we came to this
> >>>convention and every time I
> >>>brought my dog towards this dog, he would bark
> and
> >>>lounge at my dog, while
> >>>the owner atteempted to "restrain" him. This
> even
> >>>happened when we were in
> >>>the state capital building doing advocacy work.
> The
> >>>dog had a huge bark
> >>>too. I didn't see that dog much of the
> convention
> >>>after that evening.
> >>>
> >>>Smile. They do a good job, all of the schools
> do,
> >>>or they should, but even
> >>>they don't see the signs some times.
> >>>
> >>>One of my friend's first dogs, was retired, from
> a
> >>>reputable school after
> >>>she a GSD jumped up and nipped a guy leaning over
> my
> >>>friend's shoulder.
> >>>
> >>>Another dog had a terrible habbit of attacking
> other
> >>>dogs at meetings and
> >>>after the owner tried a basket muzzle said dog
> was
> >>>retired at three or four.
> >>>
> >>>I have one friend who had two dogs from the same
> >>>school that had extremely
> >>>high pray drive, one attacked a child's video
> game,
> >>>didn't like the flashing
> >>>lights they figure. And her second dog dragged
> her
> >>>into an extremely busy
> >>>street after a cat. This with severest of
> >>>corrections and she could give
> >>>them with the best of them.
> >>>
> >>>All of the above examples come from different
> >>>schools.
> >>>
> >>>And as my friends in the Animal rescue group
> always
> >>>tells me sometimes there
> >>>are behavioral problems that don't show up in the
> >>>foster or training stages
> >>>unless of course, smile, they are traded off to
> be
> >>>with another person, or
> >>>are rehomed, to a person with a much different
> >>>handling style.
> >>>
> >>>I know I definitely have a different handling
> style
> >>>than others do, and I
> >>>know it would show, in the dogs that I own. One
> of
> >>>my friends has a very
> >>>rambunctious guide, who, smile, wouldn't be a
> happy
> >>>dog in my household, as
> >>>I discipline him when I watch him, and he doesn't
> do
> >>>half the things around
> >>>me he does with his owner. But I also allow
> certain
> >>>things with my dog that
> >>>other handlers would frown down upon, like
> letting
> >>>said dog on my bed,
> >>>smile.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >>>and Judson, guiding golden
> >>>juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >>>Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >>>www.guidedogs.com
> >>>
> >>>Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >>> Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >>> Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >>>Carolyn Alexander
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth and
> Burton"
> >>><thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:44 PM
> >>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> reactions
> >>>and stpid questions
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>My school would have tested out the dog in
> various
> >>>situations with various
> >>>kinds of people and would reject any dog
> displaying
> >>>such symptoms. A blind
> >>>person has enough to do whtout handling that. No
> >>>reputable school these
> >>>days lets such a dog out after training. No
> >>>reputable school in the past
> >>>did either. I know this casts your school
> whoever
> >>>it is in a bad light but
> >>>I have worked with dogs for thirty years and it
> is
> >>>simply not fair to the
> >>>blind person or general public to work with such
> >>>animals in social
> >>>situations (which means in a world with people
> >>>grin!).
> >>>
> >>>E.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>At 07:16 PM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
> >>> >I agree. The first dog I received was a German
> >>>shepherd who, for some
> >>> >reason I never learned, didn't like Asian
> people.
> >>>I remember warning a
> >>> >friend who was Chinese not to pet her. He
> didn't
> >>>listen, and she bit him.
> >>> >Not badly, but to bite him at all was bad. She
> was
> >>>very protective of me
> >>> >in
> >>> >general, and I feared that other such incidents
> >>>would occur. She did
> >>> >retire
> >>> >early, but due to hip dysplasia. I kept her
> >>>because she was an excellent
> >>> >guide, and we worked well together, but in the
> back
> >>>of my mind I felt
> >>> >guilty, because I knew she might bite again.
> I've
> >>>had two dogs since then,
> >>> >and neither has demonstrated such tendencies.
> >>> >
> >>> >I'm thinking about getting another dog, but
> that
> >>>opens a whole new can of
> >>> >worms. I haven't decided how people will react
> to
> >>>the dog. I've done my
> >>> >current job for the past five years as a cane
> user,
> >>>and I'm not sure how
> >>> >people's opinions will change if I get a dog.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >-----Original Message-----
> >>> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >>>Behalf Of Shelley L. Rhodes
> >>> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:59 AM
> >>> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >>>reactions and stpid questions
> >>> >
> >>> >Yes indeed that is definitely over protectiness
> and
> >>>that dog should be
> >>> >retired. I have met several dogs, who were
> >>>"managed" like your friends dog
> >>> >and all of them ended up retiring early usually
> >>>after the escalated into
> >>> >nipping people or other dogs.
> >>> >
> >>> >Aggression is a trait that we do not want to
> see in
> >>>a guide dog of any
> >>> >breed.
> >>> >
> >>> >Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >>> >and Judson, guiding golden
> >>> >juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> >Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >>> >Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >>> >www.guidedogs.com
> >>> >
> >>> >Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >>> > Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >>> > Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >>> >Carolyn Alexander
> >>> >
> >>> >----- Original Message -----
> >>> >From: "robert tweedy"
> <roberttweedy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:10 AM
> >>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >>>reactions and stpid questions
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >That sounds like over protectness, our school
> >>>wouldn't like that.
> >>> >For skype contact bobwichitaks
> >>> >For msn contact info rt5117@xxxxxxx no emails.
> >>> >----- Original Message -----
> >>> >From: "Elizabeth and Burton"
> >>><thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 12:47 AM
> >>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >>>reactions and stpid questions
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > >I would question the wisdom of any school
> letting
> >>>a dog out into everyday
> >>> > >reality which reacted in such a way to sudden
> >>>moves. Just my opinion.
> >>> > >My
> >>> > >school certainly would cull such a dog out.
> It
> >>>is just too unsafe for
> >>> > >the
> >>> > >dog's person otherwise.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > E.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > At 01:44 AM 12/4/2006, you wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > >>Once I was in a restaurant with a friend who
> had
> >>>a guide dog, hallf
> >>> > >>German
> >>> > >>shephere and half German police. The dog
> was a
> >>>good worker but did not
> >>> > >>like
> >>> > >>sudden moves. A man at our table dropped
> the
> >>>lid to the catsup bottle
> >>> > >>on
> >>> > >>the floor under the table. The dog was
> under
> >>>there, and his partnner
> >>> > >>warned
> >>> > >>the man not to get the top because the dog
> might
> >>>bite. Well, the man
> >>> > >>did
> >>> > >>not listen and the dog bit him. Since there
> >>>were witnesses that the man
> >>> > >>had
> >>> > >>been warned, the man did not press charges,
> but
> >>>did need a few stitches.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>Sue S.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>----- Original Message -----
> >>> > >>From: "Shelley L. Rhodes"
> >>><juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:08 PM
> >>> > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >>>reactions and stpid questions
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>I don't mind if people ask to pet my dog,
> >>>particularly if he is laying
> >>> > >>down
> >>> > >>somewhere, or if I am in a familiar place,
> like
> >>>my church, at Western,
> >>> > >>or
> >>> > >>at
> >>> > >>my job this summer. In fact Judson knows
> the
> >>>command "Go say hi" and
> >>> > >>knows
> >>> > >>he is allowed to be a dog, when I give that
> >>>command.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>Now... I do need to reinforce this sigh, at
> the
> >>>church though as a
> >>> > >>couple
> >>> > >>of
> >>> > >>the girls are taking liberties.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>But I don't have a problem with people who
> ask
> >>>if I have the time.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>But if I say NO there is a reason why I am
> >>>saying NO, and please respect
> >>> > >>that, smile.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>Some people don't.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>Shelley L. Rhodes B.S. Ed, CTVI
> >>> > >>and Judson, guiding golden
> >>> > >>juddysbuddy@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> > >>Guide Dogs For the Blind Inc.
> >>> > >>Graduate Alumni Association Board
> >>> > >>www.guidedogs.com
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>Dog ownership is like a rainbow.
> >>> > >> Puppies are the joy at one end.
> >>> > >> Old dogs are the treasure at the other.
> >>> > >>Carolyn Alexander
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>----- Original Message -----
> >>> > >>From: <barbarab65@xxxxxxx>
> >>> > >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> > >>Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:02 PM
> >>> > >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: OT: people's
> >>>reactions and stpid questions
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>Sometimes, in the right circumstances, I ask
> >>>people who are not blind if
> >>> > >>I
> >>> > >>can pet their dog. Therefore, it would seem
> >>>normal for me to ask someone
> >>> > >>who
> >>> > >>is
> >>> > >> in blind, in the right circumstances, if I
> >>>could pet his or her dog.
> >>> > >> Now, I
> >>> > >>know not to do this, anymore. I think that
> the
> >>>sign helps because it is
> >>> > >>a
> >>> > >>natural inclination to pet dogs.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>Blind
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> >
> >>>
>
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